From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 03:22:56 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA27201 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:22:56 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA27196 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:22:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14261 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:23:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:23:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Another requested source change.. In-Reply-To: <000101be7bc9$87e30e40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Do you have access to the CVS repository? We surely would like to keep the codebase as flexible and consistent as possible. I'm not sure if the server code currently compiles under Win32, but eventually it would hope to do so. I will make the necessary changes to the header files. Be sure to keep asking for things like this, one set of header files is all we need. Nick On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > I have another requested source change, this time for the include files in > lib. > > If you want me to use my OWN versions of these files, I can do that, but in > order to use the current ones, I need these changes made: > > -------common.h > These include files need to be #ifndef WIN32'd, as they do not apply to > Visual C++, and don;t event exist under it, for that matter.. > > strings.h > unistd.h > sys/socket.h > netinet/in.h > netdb.h > arpa/inet.h > > This include file is actually just , instead of > sys/time.h = time.h > > ---common_functions.h > These need to be #ifndef WIN32. I'm not using your networking, and compiler > doesn't like them much.. ;-P > > make_netsocket > make_addr > > Again, if you want me to use COPIES of the include files in the win32 > directory, I have NO problem with doing that. > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 03:28:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA27318 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:28:28 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA27313 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:28:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14291 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:29:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:29:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Another requested source change.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Another question for you.. Have you tested your Jabber client using wine? Nick > On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > > > I have another requested source change, this time for the include files in > > lib. > > > > If you want me to use my OWN versions of these files, I can do that, but in > > order to use the current ones, I need these changes made: > > > > -------common.h > > These include files need to be #ifndef WIN32'd, as they do not apply to > > Visual C++, and don;t event exist under it, for that matter.. > > > > strings.h > > unistd.h > > sys/socket.h > > netinet/in.h > > netdb.h > > arpa/inet.h > > > > This include file is actually just , instead of > > sys/time.h = time.h > > > > ---common_functions.h > > These need to be #ifndef WIN32. I'm not using your networking, and compiler > > doesn't like them much.. ;-P > > > > make_netsocket > > make_addr > > > > Again, if you want me to use COPIES of the include files in the win32 > > directory, I have NO problem with doing that. > > > > -- > > Thomas Charron > > United Parcel Service > > Northeast Region > > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 10:27:06 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29319 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:27:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29316 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:27:04 -0600 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:27:03 -0600 (EST) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Announcing: Jabber.org 2! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've been busy the last few days and made a good deal of changes at http://jabber.org/ that I invite everyone to check out. I'm trying to create a seamless development "portal" (I know that word is PHB marketing term, but it works well in this case) for all efforts related to Jabber. Notable items: Reorganized structure Updated Documentation(just started, much more coming) Splash page self-adapts to your actions Dynamic DB driven environment Continually updated developer news page Developer membership system Project registration and management Always current information There are a ton of great new things on the site, mostly in relation to developer registration and project management. I think I have most of the bugs worked out, so give me a holler if you get any 404s or errors! I *urge* you to register as a Developer and associate yourself with any projects you might want to participate in or just be associated with. If you are working on a project related to Jabber that isn't listed, please feel free to add it! Thank you, Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 10:32:07 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29385 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:32:07 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29381 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:32:04 -0600 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA29300 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA29225 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA22452 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from nermail.ups.com ([10.94.32.99]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA22435 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:31:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <370390C6.2D113405@nermail.ups.com> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:29:10 -0500 From: Thomas Charron X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Another requested source change.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Not yet.. Planning on looking at it under Wine this weekend, after I finish up adding the networking support. It 'SHOULD' work alright, as I'm not doing anything funky, just standard API calls, really.. I'm not sure how well MFC classes work under Wine, though.. Nicholas M. Kirsch wrote: > Another question for you.. Have you tested your Jabber client using wine? > > Nick > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > > > > > I have another requested source change, this time for the include files in > > > lib. > > > > > > If you want me to use my OWN versions of these files, I can do that, but in > > > order to use the current ones, I need these changes made: > > > > > > -------common.h > > > These include files need to be #ifndef WIN32'd, as they do not apply to > > > Visual C++, and don;t event exist under it, for that matter.. > > > > > > strings.h > > > unistd.h > > > sys/socket.h > > > netinet/in.h > > > netdb.h > > > arpa/inet.h > > > > > > This include file is actually just , instead of > > > sys/time.h = time.h > > > > > > ---common_functions.h > > > These need to be #ifndef WIN32. I'm not using your networking, and compiler > > > doesn't like them much.. ;-P > > > > > > make_netsocket > > > make_addr > > > > > > Again, if you want me to use COPIES of the include files in the win32 > > > directory, I have NO problem with doing that. > > > > > > -- > > > Thomas Charron > > > United Parcel Service > > > Northeast Region > > > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 16:59:27 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31111 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:59:27 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31108 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:59:18 -0600 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id BAA10998 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:20:04 +0200 (TSI) Received: from cn-async-host-00053.comnet.com.tr by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA16634; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:53:26 +0300 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:57:53 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hi. how about moving the entire project into glib? glib is General Library, runs on many platforms including windows and many UNIXes, and has lots of useful functions. some of them are: (cut-and-paste from glib.h :P ) o Doubly and Singly linked linked lists o Hash tables o A lexical scanner o Caches and Balanced Binary Trees o N-way tree implementation o Callback functions o A logging mechanism o g_malloc() and other things (bugfixed string routines, etc), which are different in some OSes o Timer functions o Easily-resizeable string functions (GString *) o Resizeable arrays o Quarks o Keyed data lists o Date functions, also a common date parser o Indexed relations o Easy to use modules (g_module_*) o Standardized threads (g_thread_*) o and some other cool things :P current glib version is 1.2.1, and available in ftp.gtk.org and several other mirrors. some extra documentation at glade.pn.org. (there's also some documentation in the tarball) yes, how about it? bye, disqk Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 18:06:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31449 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:06:15 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31446 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:06:12 -0600 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA16956 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA16838 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA08266 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id SAA08249 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:05:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Another requested source change.. Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:28:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be7c97$5fcb0880$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Nicholas M. Kirsch > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Another requested source change.. > Do you have access to the CVS repository? We surely would like to keep the > codebase as flexible and consistent as possible. I'm not sure if the > server code currently compiles under Win32, but eventually it would hope > to do so. I will make the necessary changes to the header files. Be sure > to keep asking for things like this, one set of header files is all we > need. I have partial access to CVS. All I have access to that I know of is the win32 directory under clients. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 18:09:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31485 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31482 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:51 -0600 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA19579 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA19575 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA09680 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id SAA09673 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:09:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:32:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be7c97$e7664de0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org While glib is a nice library, I'm unsure of what it would gain us. One of the cons of this would be requiring another library for compile, while I, for one, at least for the CORE files, would like to see it stick with strait ANSI as much as it can. Now, if we steal some source out of it, (I'm assuming it's GPL), I have no problem with that. Even if some clients where written with it, good for them, but the core jabberbox andjabber transport? Let's keep that as universal as possible is my opinion.. Others? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Kemal 'disq' Hadimli > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 3:58 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? > > > > Hi. > > how about moving the entire project into glib? > > glib is General Library, runs on many platforms including windows and > many UNIXes, and has lots of useful functions. some of them are: > (cut-and-paste from glib.h :P ) > > o Doubly and Singly linked linked lists > o Hash tables > o A lexical scanner > o Caches and Balanced Binary Trees > o N-way tree implementation > o Callback functions > o A logging mechanism > o g_malloc() and other things (bugfixed string routines, etc), which are > different in some OSes > o Timer functions > o Easily-resizeable string functions (GString *) > o Resizeable arrays > o Quarks > o Keyed data lists > o Date functions, also a common date parser > o Indexed relations > o Easy to use modules (g_module_*) > o Standardized threads (g_thread_*) > o and some other cool things :P > > > current glib version is 1.2.1, and available in ftp.gtk.org and > several other mirrors. some extra documentation at glade.pn.org. (there's > also some documentation in the tarball) > > > yes, how about it? > > > bye, > disqk > > > Microsoft is not the answer. > Microsoft is the question. > NO (or Linux) is the answer. > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 18:40:25 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31749 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:40:25 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31746 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:40:20 -0600 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA03063 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:39:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA03048 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA19671 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id SAA19665 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:39:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Announcing: Jabber.org 2! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:02:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be7c9c$291f1d80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey, uh, looking at the http://jabber.org/download/latest/, there are no directories but clients.. I hope this isn't linked directly to the CVS repository.. That'd be bad.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:27 AM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] Announcing: Jabber.org 2! > > > I've been busy the last few days and made a good deal of changes at > http://jabber.org/ that I invite everyone to check out. > > I'm trying to create a seamless development "portal" (I know that word is > PHB marketing term, but it works well in this case) for all efforts > related to Jabber. > > Notable items: > Reorganized structure > Updated Documentation(just started, much more coming) > Splash page self-adapts to your actions > Dynamic DB driven environment > Continually updated developer news page > Developer membership system > Project registration and management > Always current information > > There are a ton of great new things on the site, mostly in relation to > developer registration and project management. I think I have most of the > bugs worked out, so give me a holler if you get any 404s or errors! > > I *urge* you to register as a Developer and associate yourself with any > projects you might want to participate in or just be associated with. If > you are working on a project related to Jabber that isn't listed, please > feel free to add it! > > Thank you, > > Jer > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 18:44:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31810 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:44:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from raystewart.com (shiblon.lightrealm.com [209.203.232.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31806 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:44:49 -0600 Received: from hawthorne (hil-c45-048-vty54.as.wcom.net [199.174.228.54]) by raystewart.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13113 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:44:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004f01be7bd0$83988f20$1e04a8c0@na.com> From: "Dave Smith" To: Subject: Re: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:45:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Considering glib.... To begin with, only use it if you're continually having to write your own hash/list/scanner routines. Re-inventing the wheel is kinda pointless. :) As for the ANSI conformance, I really don't think that's a *huge* issue. GLib is pretty portable -- more so than most code I've run across. The real question is, is it really needed? I'll be honest, I haven't really had a chance to look at the code contained in Jabber (after this semester, though... :)) If anyone can identify *specific* areas in the core Jabber distro that would benefit from a generic, portable library implementation, then I say go for it. Otherwise, take the "lazy" programmer approach and just use what you need. :) As my grandfather likes to say..."Opinions are like armpits; everyone has them and they usually stink." :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 19:19:02 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32047 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:19:02 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32044 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:19:00 -0600 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA15563 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA15555 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:18:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA28595 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:18:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id TAA28588 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:18:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Yet more needs for changes.. Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:41:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be7ca1$91398f40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Ok, here's what I've come across using the common lib files.. Here they go.. 1) *BIG ONE* Currently, there are two declares in #common.h: jmp_buf _jabberlib_ioenv; int _jabberlib_dbg; These need to be moved into a file SOMEWHERE and marked as extern in the include file.. Everythings FINE untill you need to compile MULTIPLE files that include #common.h, at which point the link will belch and moan about multiple defs of them in multiple files.. 2) Can we PPPWWWEEEEAASSEE change the DBUG macro to point to a function or something? printf's aren't going to do much in ANY sort of way in a graphical envirnment, like KJabber, cabbar, Win32 are.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 1 23:47:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA00330 for jdev-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:47:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mailhost.communities.com (taken2.communities.com [205.162.51.50] (may be forged)) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA00327 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:47:52 -0600 Received: from [205.162.51.192] (dhcp192.communities.com [205.162.51.192]) by mailhost.communities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04826 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:47:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199904020447.UAA04826@mailhost.communities.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0a (190) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 20:50:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [JDEV] Speaking of firewalls.... From: "Carl MacDonald" To: jdev@jabber.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org >easier to do with 06, it's MUCH better then 05 was.. May I ask what >problems you've had compiling 06? > Configure isn't replacing some of the variables in the makefiles in subdirectories. Haven't had time to go dig into what's wrong yet as I have a ship deadline breathing down my neck. If nobodies sorted it out by the time I get back to it I'll track it down. I'm sure it's one of the many gotcha's in autoconf. -- Carl From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 2 02:06:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00881 for jdev-list; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:06:44 -0600 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-19.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.148]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00877 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:06:40 -0600 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA18822 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:11:56 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:11:56 -0600 (EST) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Announcing: Jabber.org 2! In-Reply-To: <000001be7c9c$291f1d80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hey, uh, looking at the http://jabber.org/download/latest/, there are no > directories but clients.. I hope this isn't linked directly to the CVS > repository.. That'd be bad.. ;-P Fixed... everything is back. It's a nightly extract, not a live link to the repository. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 2 04:09:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA01538 for jdev-list; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:09:44 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01535 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:09:41 -0600 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA21841 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:10:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:10:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Speaking of firewalls.... In-Reply-To: <199904020447.UAA04826@mailhost.communities.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I haven't had any trouble compiling the jabber sources. I'll take another look. If you find something, let me know. Nick nkirsch@olaf.nick.org On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Carl MacDonald wrote: > >easier to do with 06, it's MUCH better then 05 was.. May I ask what > >problems you've had compiling 06? > > > Configure isn't replacing some of the variables in the makefiles in > subdirectories. Haven't had time to go dig into what's wrong yet as I have a > ship deadline breathing down my neck. If nobodies sorted it out by the time > I get back to it I'll track it down. I'm sure it's one of the many gotcha's > in autoconf. > -- > Carl > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 2 10:59:01 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03045 for jdev-list; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:59:01 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03042 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:58:59 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:58:59 -0600 (EST) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > how about moving the entire project into glib? > I looked at it before I started reworking the codebase, but decided to avoid it for the moment. The reasoning goes that I'd like to see the server platform(expat, JabberBox, Jabber Transport, modules) be "functionally" complete as soon as possible, so that other things can start relying on how they operate and interact. After they are working as expected, smaller issues are worked out, and the platform has stabalized somewhat, THEN let's go back and revisit the server to enhance portability, modularity, memory management, and most importantly performance and threading, all while maintaining the same "platform" and operational strategies. I'd like to make everything just "work" fairly reliably and functionally so that we can really get moving as an entire platform :-) I do like glib though... why isn't some of this stuff standard in the c libs? Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 2 11:04:46 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03100 for jdev-list; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:04:46 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03097 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:04:44 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:04:44 -0600 (EST) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] move to glib before the code gets complicated? In-Reply-To: <004f01be7bd0$83988f20$1e04a8c0@na.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > To begin with, only use it if you're continually having to write your own > hash/list/scanner routines. Re-inventing the wheel is kinda pointless. :) As > for the ANSI conformance, I really don't think that's a *huge* issue. GLib > is pretty portable -- more so than most code I've run across. The real > question is, is it really needed? I'll be honest, I haven't really had a > chance to look at the code contained in Jabber (after this semester, > though... :)) I think it might need some of them at some point, but for the time it's doing just fine with simple linked lists in every nook 'n cranny, *g*. > If anyone can identify *specific* areas in the core Jabber distro that would > benefit from a generic, portable library implementation, then I say go for > it. Otherwise, take the "lazy" programmer approach and just use what you > need. :) Threading, but I think Nick is looking at that... > As my grandfather likes to say..."Opinions are like armpits; everyone has > them and they usually stink." :) Lovin it! INSERT INTO grey_matter (quips, use) VALUES ('$quip', 'Corporate Meetings'); Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 10:45:39 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08524 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:45:39 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08521 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:45:35 -0600 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id TAA27371 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:06:28 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17597; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:39:58 +0300 Message-ID: <3706353C.F44061EE@iname.com> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:35:24 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Hello... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hello everyone... I have a question about transports: Will the clients connect to jabber, IRC, ICQ, etc. server themselves or they will omnly be connected to jabber, and jabber servers will send IRC, ICQ, etc. messages to their servers? From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 12:24:17 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08901 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:24:17 -0600 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-39.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.168]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08898 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:24:14 -0600 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20700 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:30:02 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:30:01 -0600 (EST) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Hello... In-Reply-To: <3706353C.F44061EE@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hello everyone... > I have a question about transports: > > Will the clients connect to jabber, IRC, ICQ, etc. server themselves or > they will omnly be connected to jabber, and jabber servers will send > IRC, ICQ, etc. messages to their servers? Jabber clients will connect to Jabber servers, and if the "recipient" is actually an IRC/ICQ/etc user the Jabber server will forward it on to the correct "transport" for that type of service, which will deliver it correctly and forward on any replies. It may sound a bit funny/awkward, but it ends up creating a really powerful messaging platform with neutral simple clients. I can't wait to see it in full operation :) Thanks, Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 18:53:40 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10180 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:53:40 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10176 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:53:35 -0600 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id DAA04888 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 03:14:30 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA17806; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 02:47:49 +0300 Message-ID: <3706A790.A35B2BBE@iname.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 02:43:12 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] About server2client roster message... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hello everyone... I think the roster messages should be like this: Waster Waster (ICQ) Waster (IRC) Here the format: $para3 $para1 : This is for the JABBER clients to put the nicks and subs (ICQ,IRC,etc.) together. In the figure above, the client will show: oWaster #jabber (online) oWaster (ICQ) #ICQ numbered 27216346 (online) oWaster (IRC) #IRC nicked Waster_ (online) But if we change the figure like this: Waster Waster (ICQ) Waster (IRC) then the client will show: oWaster #jabber (online) oWaster (ICQ) #ICQ numbered 27216346 (online) oWaster (IRC) #IRC nicked Waster_ (offline) $para2 : This is the path to reach the other person ( waster@jabber.server.org , waster_@IRC , etc.) $para3 : This is the text that will be shown in the client's roster list. I think this is the best way a server can send the roster list. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 19:02:13 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10286 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:02:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10283 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:02:09 -0600 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id DAA04994 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 03:23:05 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA17809; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 02:56:33 +0300 Message-ID: <3706A945.35641F0C@iname.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 02:51:58 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] What about discussing in an IRC server? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Because IRC is a better way to get ideas than a mailing list, I think we must set an IRC server at jabber.org , so that we can discuss things about jabber easier. And we can mail the log file every 24 hours for the other that weren't in the IRC server. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 19:52:53 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10543 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:52:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from imaginative.net (mail.uaigroup.com [207.50.219.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA10540 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:52:51 -0600 Received: from imaginative.net [208.170.185.61] by imaginative.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8791B790150; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:55:21 -05:0 Message-ID: <3706B836.619B2D32@imaginative.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:54:14 -0500 From: Zach Nelson Organization: Imaginative Entertainment X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] What about discussing in an IRC server? References: <3706A945.35641F0C@iname.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org We've got a private IRC server that any of you can use for development and/or testing. irc.techwatch.net Regards, Zach Nelson TechWatch dot Net Waster_ wrote: > > Because IRC is a better way to get ideas than a mailing list, I think we > must set an IRC server at jabber.org , so that we can discuss things > about jabber easier. And we can mail the log file every 24 hours for the > other that weren't in the IRC server. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 3 20:05:20 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10660 for jdev-list; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:05:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10657 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:05:16 -0600 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id EAA05558 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:26:12 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA17863; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 03:59:37 +0300 Message-ID: <3706B866.EBB8C65D@iname.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 03:55:02 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] What about discussing in an IRC server? References: <3706A945.35641F0C@iname.com> <3706B836.619B2D32@imaginative.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Thanx. Zach Nelson wrote: > We've got a private IRC server that any of you can use for development > and/or testing. > > irc.techwatch.net > > Regards, > > Zach Nelson > TechWatch dot Net > > Waster_ wrote: > > > > Because IRC is a better way to get ideas than a mailing list, I think we > > must set an IRC server at jabber.org , so that we can discuss things > > about jabber easier. And we can mail the log file every 24 hours for the > > other that weren't in the IRC server. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 4 16:42:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14466 for jdev-list; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:42:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14463 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:42:33 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA19931 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:03:31 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA18288; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:36:49 +0300 Message-ID: <3707539D.3FD7EEC3@iname.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:57:18 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] About server2client roster messages... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org ReHello everyone... First sorry about the message that was wrapped at 72 chars because of Netscape. Now I re-send the message without wrapping --------------------------------------------------------- I think the roster messages should be like this: Waster Waster (ICQ) Waster (IRC) Here the format: $para3 $para0 : The group name $para1 : This is for the JABBER client to know that waster@jabber.server.org , 27216346@ICQ and Waster_@IRC are the same person. In the figure above, the client will show all of them as subs of the waster@jabber.server.org because their nicks are the same. |--Waster | |--Waster #jabber | |--Waster (ICQ) #ICQ with UIN 27216346 | |--Waster (IRC) #IRC with nick Waster_ But if we change the figure like this: Waster Waster (ICQ) Waster (IRC) then the client will seperate them... |--Waster | |--Waster #jabber | |--Waster (ICQ) #ICQ with UIN 27216346 |--Jeremie | |--Waster (IRC) #IRC with nick Waster_ $para2: This is the path to reach the other person ( waster@jabber.server.org , 27216346@ICQ , etc.) $para3: This is the text that will be shown in the client's roster list. User can modify this. I think this is the best way a server can send the roster list. ---------------------- Status changes should also be sent by this way, but instead of sending all roster list, only the changed status may be sent. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HomePage: http://waster.8m.com ICQ: 27216346 From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 10:31:53 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17905 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:31:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA17902 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:31:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:31:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Information Querying/Storage Proposal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Information Querying/Storage Proposal This is a proposal to add an simple data storage and retrieval to Jabber that will function in a general purpose way. Goals: Handle the following User Information(Name/Address/etc) User Preferences(Common Client Prefs, colors, sorting, etc) Public Server Data(Online users, simple stats, site/help URL, etc) Private Server Data(Admins only, full stats, errors, security, perf) Private Client Data(Special purpose client-level queries) Here is a possible simple protocol snippet to show how it might work: jeremie user public
This "info" packet would be sent from the client to the server, asking the server for the name/address/email of the user "Jeremie". It would be up to the server/users privacy settings to decide, but a possible responce might be: client public Jeremie Miller
Some Street, City, State, 55555
jeremie@jabber.org
The server would basically just "fill in" the query terms sent by the client. *** -- Contains characters identifying what "area" this info is related to -- Possible Values: user: User specific level information, addresses, preferences, etc client: Delivered directly to the client software, responses and special queries server: Server specific information *** -- This is the specific item that the query/result is directed at -- Possibilities: public: Usually public information admin: Administrative protected tasks feature: Feature Negotiation private: Priavte only data *** -- Contains empty XML tags detailing the specifics of the data requested *** -- Should contain the queried XML tags filled in with the correct data, which might itself be XML This takes care of a simple data query/result situation, let's add in the ability to change data also. user public jer@jeremie.com By simply changing the to a , the data can be updated/stored. This would of course only be allowed by an authenticated session from the correct user account. This appears to take care of most cases, and also allow for more functionality in the use of Jabber. Possibilities include: -- Using to store general client prefs: Create a list of standard client preferences, , etc, that a client can optionally support -- Using to store client specific prefs: Clients can use a specific query such as asdf max and the server should store this and return it when asked. This should only be _client_specific_ data stored with a "priavte" type, all general preferences that might apply to multiple clients should be turned into a general list and posted in the client development requirements/guidelines. -- Using to query server variables: Special public server queries might include that any transport/server should respond to appropriately, with a URL or other data. -- Using to admin a server: Special administrative accounts might be able to query errors, performance, connected users, etc. They might also be able to set certian items an change variables in the server on the fly or disconnect users. -- Using for special client-level purposes: Queries can also be delivered to clients, although they are not required to respond. But special clients might be able to send back transient data. This would be a special purpose only client<->client communication, where it is NON-USER-LEVEL data. Anything user level or that might interact with the user in any way should be done via the tags in a message. There is the possibility for abuse here, just note that the packets are for simple data/variable querying/storage that is not user-level. Example: Temperature sensor! A small computer could be set up as a miniature weather lab with a few sensors connected. It could connect to a Jabber server as a client, and it would update it's status regularly with the current temperature so everyone with it on their roster would have the current temp. But special info queries could be sent to it to retrieve wind speed or to set update intervals, etc. -- Feature Negotiation!!! Every digital communication medium needs decent "feature negotiation" to allow growth and upgrades, so that newer nodes can use newer features without breaking older ones. This is especially important in Jabber since it's a completely open architecture, so special transports, modules, and clients will be written with unique and special feature sets. All of these need to be able to negotiate with each other what they all can/can't do. Info queries with a feature can be used everywhere to ask if the other side can do a certian feature or ask for information about that feature. Example: client to client file transfer query might look like user client feature would ask the other client if they can do SSL file transfers directly, and the client might(definately optionally) respond with a 123.23.12.231:8453 signifying where to put the file. Obviously, this is a fairly important piece of Jabber. I expect some discussion on these subjects, but please, let's try to remember that we want to keep the base protocol simple and any of these items as optional as possible. This won't be in 0.6 but will be added in shortly after. Much of it needs to be fleshed out yet, primarily exactly what the common public, admin, and feature queries are going to be. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 10:52:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18059 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:52:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18056 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:52:29 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA19149 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA19126 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA00432 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id KAA00410 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:51:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Hello... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:38:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000301be7f72$00c40c00$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I was thinking about the below, and we have only one small problem. NOT all users will be able to message to/from ICQ. They will need to actually have an AOL/ICQ account, which will somehow need to be registered with the transport that will serve as the gateway. We're also going to need to deal with privacy concerns. I don't think anyone wants their passwords sent clear text to the transport. Just some things that bubbled up from the great beyond.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 12:30 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Hello... > > > > > Hello everyone... > > I have a question about transports: > > > > Will the clients connect to jabber, IRC, ICQ, etc. server themselves or > > they will omnly be connected to jabber, and jabber servers will send > > IRC, ICQ, etc. messages to their servers? > > Jabber clients will connect to Jabber servers, and if the "recipient" is > actually an IRC/ICQ/etc user the Jabber server will forward it on to the > correct "transport" for that type of service, which will deliver it > correctly and forward on any replies. > > It may sound a bit funny/awkward, but it ends up creating a really > powerful messaging platform with neutral simple clients. I can't wait to > see it in full operation :) > > Thanks, > > Jer > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 11:07:50 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18192 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:07:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18189 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:07:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:07:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] About server2client roster messages... In-Reply-To: <3707539D.3FD7EEC3@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > [refer to preveious message contents] Roster lists and status messages are seperate things in Jabber with seperate purposes. The roster is stored and delivered by the server/module handling the connected user, and the status messages arrive independantly from the remote users as they come online or change their status. I can't see any benefit of combining the two, in fact, the seperation gives Jabber an edge. If there is any actual reason or benifit that you see for combining them, then well take a look at both approaches and see how they work out. Also, it looks like you might be confused on how Jabber accounts work(don't worry, it's easy to confuse at the beginning). When you are using a Jabber client and are using Jabber to connect to other systems(ICQ/AIM/etc), You are still only one ID. So others that are connected to all of them VIA JABBER are also only one ID and will only appear as one "Jabber" user in your list. BUT, others on IRC/ICQ/etc will be able to see YOU, and THEY will appear as a seperate users in your list. BUT, if there is a user out there that actually has a Jabber client, ICQ client, and AIM client all running at the same time(Jabber _should_ be able to replace the other two so this won't be needed, that's the whole point) there will be three ways of talking to them if you are using Jabber, Jabber->Jabber, Jabber->ICQ, Jabber->AIM. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask! Thanks, Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 11:16:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18271 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18268 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Hello... In-Reply-To: <000301be7f72$00c40c00$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I was thinking about the below, and we have only one small problem. NOT > all users will be able to message to/from ICQ. They will need to actually > have an AOL/ICQ account, which will somehow need to be registered with the > transport that will serve as the gateway. Correct, if a Jabber user wants to communicate with an ICQ/AIM user, they will need to have a respective account on those systems. The ICQ/AIM transports should allow two ways of this, either utilizing your own manually setup account that you already have or got yourself, or having this be an automated process. I'd like to get a prototype transport up and running soon here so we can work through some of these issues. > We're also going to need to deal with privacy concerns. I don't think > anyone wants their passwords sent clear text to the transport. Just some > things that bubbled up from the great beyond.. Well, I'm sure crypto can be involved at some level, but I'm no expert there. Easily though, a transport could have the passwords stored in a DB that is only enterable via a web browser and HTTPS connection, and they would only grab it and use it to log in for the user. For the most part, this should be a non-issue since the password is sent in clear text from the transport to the ICQ/AIM/etc server anyway, the only ones that would care are the encrypted IM systems. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 19:06:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20479 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:06:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20476 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:06:37 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id CAA02117 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:27:32 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA18907; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:00:43 +0300 Message-ID: <370926AE.E16A52D9@iname.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:10:06 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] About transports... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Will the transports send information about it's avaible statuses to the user? For example ICQ transport can send something like that in the tag: Transport2Client Avaible Statuses Msg: Client2Transport Status Msg: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit Waster's HomePage at http://waster.8m.com/ From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 21:09:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21172 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:09:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mailhost.communities.com (taken2.communities.com [205.162.51.50] (may be forged)) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21168 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:09:15 -0500 Received: from [205.162.51.192] (dhcp192.communities.com [205.162.51.192]) by mailhost.communities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08035 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904060109.SAA08035@mailhost.communities.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0a (190) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:11:47 -0700 Subject: [JDEV] Solved autoconf compile headache (was: Speaking of firewalls....) From: "Carl MacDonald" To: jdev@jabber.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Ok, figured out what the problem was with the autoconf setup. The following lines need to be added to configure.in just before the AC_OUTPUT macro call: AC_SUBST(SHELL) AC_SUBST(LD) AC_SUBST(LEX) AC_SUBST(LIBTOOL) AC_SUBST(LN_S) AC_SUBST(NM) -- Carl ---------- >From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" >To: jdev@jabber.org >Subject: Re: [JDEV] Speaking of firewalls.... >Date: Fri, Apr 2, 1999, 2:10 AM > > >I haven't had any trouble compiling the jabber sources. I'll take another >look. If you find something, let me know. > >Nick >nkirsch@olaf.nick.org > >On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Carl MacDonald wrote: > >> >easier to do with 06, it's MUCH better then 05 was.. May I ask what >> >problems you've had compiling 06? >> > >> Configure isn't replacing some of the variables in the makefiles in >> subdirectories. Haven't had time to go dig into what's wrong yet as I have a >> ship deadline breathing down my neck. If nobodies sorted it out by the time >> I get back to it I'll track it down. I'm sure it's one of the many gotcha's >> in autoconf. >> -- >> Carl >> > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 5 23:34:45 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22125 for jdev-list; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:34:45 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-60.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.189]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22122 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:34:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02399 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:34:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:34:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] About transports... In-Reply-To: <370926AE.E16A52D9@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'll try to explain how the status packets interact with other transports and map onto their "status" settings... A typical Jabber status packet might look like: Busy Working -5 Any client can't possibly be expected to understand about how a remote system's status might be handled, so it's going to be up to the transport to map a Jabber status onto the appropriate status settings for that remote syste(ICQ/AIM/etc). Say, for the above status, it was being forwarded on to an ICQ user via the ICQ transport. The ICQ transport would need to map the -5 onto the range of "away" settings(-5 might be 'away' and -15 might be 'N/A', the priority values need to be mapped out as guidelines yet, another discussion). Then, it would copy the contents into the actual ICQ away message. It works just the same in reverse, ICQ status updates are translated to Jabber and sent on. A Jabber client should never need to be aware of any "transport only" data like specific ICQ status settings, everything is converted to/from Jabber, that's the point :) Jer On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Waster_ wrote: > Will the transports send information about it's avaible > statuses to the user? For example ICQ transport can > send something like that in the tag: > > Transport2Client Avaible Statuses Msg: > > > > > > > > > > > Client2Transport Status Msg: > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Visit Waster's HomePage at http://waster.8m.com/ > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:01:13 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25954 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:01:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25951 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:01:06 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA07770 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:22:17 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA19545; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:55:22 +0300 Message-ID: <370A5A82.A8DCDA5F@iname.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:03:31 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] About transports... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Jeremie wrote: > I'll try to explain how the status packets interact with other transports > and map onto their "status" settings... > > A typical Jabber status packet might look like: > > Busy Working > -5 > > > Any client can't possibly be expected to understand about how a remote > system's status might be handled, so it's going to be up to the transport > to map a Jabber status onto the appropriate status settings for that > remote syste(ICQ/AIM/etc). > > Say, for the above status, it was being forwarded on to an ICQ user via > the ICQ transport. The ICQ transport would need to map the -5 onto the > range of "away" settings(-5 might be 'away' and -15 might be 'N/A', the > priority values need to be mapped out as guidelines yet, another > discussion). Then, it would copy the contents into the actual > ICQ away message. > > It works just the same in reverse, ICQ status updates are translated to > Jabber and sent on. > > A Jabber client should never need to be aware of any "transport only" data > like specific ICQ status settings, everything is converted to/from Jabber, > that's the point :) > > Jer > Yes, they can be handled that way, but at least the client must know which priority is for connect and which priority for disconnect. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:11:39 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26038 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:11:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26035 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:11:33 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA08033 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:32:42 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA19552; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:05:31 +0300 Message-ID: <370A5CE6.DD06F663@iname.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:13:42 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Wanna know something... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Is there a cryption to avoid XML conflicts? I mean for example if a user send a message that has in it, itwould be: Although the first is the user's message, the XML parser would think that its end of SAY and give error at the second . I don't know, you've discussed this (I've 165 more mails to read, gimme some time ;-] ), but maybe we can use the same cryption as in HTML files : "<" will be crypted to "<" and "&" will be crypted to "&" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:29:37 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26173 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:29:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26169 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] About transports... In-Reply-To: <370A5A82.A8DCDA5F@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > > Yes, they can be handled that way, but at least the client must > know which priority is for connect and which priority for disconnect. Of course, and there is a special case specifically for online/offline: I'm ONLINE now! I'm leaving now! Currently that's the only thing the type='' attribute is for, to identify the special online/offline packets. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:31:52 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26215 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:31:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26212 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:31:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:31:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Wanna know something... In-Reply-To: <370A5CE6.DD06F663@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Is there a cryption to avoid XML conflicts? I mean for example > if a user send a message that has in it, itwould be: > > > > Although the first is the user's message, the XML parser would think that its end of SAY and give error at the second . I don't know, you've discussed this (I've 165 more mails to read, gimme some time ;-] ), but maybe we can use the same cryption > as in HTML files : > > "<" will be crypted to "<" and "&" will be crypted to "&" Yes, this is part of XML, the following entities are defined: & & < < > > " " ' ' Currently, if the server encounters bad XML as in the above example, it will currently just drop the connection, but eventually it will at least attempt to deliver an error message first. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:35:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26243 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:35:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26240 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:35:33 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA08368 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA08160 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA19488 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id PAA19481 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:34:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Wanna know something... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be8062$b3c90a80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <370A5CE6.DD06F663@iname.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org You hit it on the nose.. It's listed (At least it used to be) under client requirments.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Waster_ > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:14 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] Wanna know something... > > > Is there a cryption to avoid XML conflicts? I mean for example > if a user send a message that has in it, itwould be: > > > > Although the first is the user's message, the XML parser > would think that its end of SAY and give error at the second > . I don't know, you've discussed this (I've 165 more mails > to read, gimme some time ;-] ), but maybe we can use the same cryption > as in HTML files : > > "<" will be crypted to "<" and "&" will be crypted to "&" > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 15:46:06 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26413 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:46:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26409 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:46:00 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id XAA09006 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:07:07 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA19568; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:40:12 +0300 Message-ID: <370A650A.FFB2D5AA@iname.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:48:26 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Wanna know something... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Jeremie wrote: > Yes, this is part of XML, the following entities are defined: > > & & > < < > > > > " " > ' ' > > Currently, if the server encounters bad XML as in the above example, it > will currently just drop the connection, but eventually it will at least > attempt to deliver an error message first. > > Jer And one more thing: Are these avaible in or only here? I sent this message because when I tried to send a message containing with jabber_win9x (protocol 19991001), it didn't encryped the message and send From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 16:04:49 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26590 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:04:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins3.netins.net (root@ins3.netins.net [167.142.225.3]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26587 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:04:45 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins3.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22253 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:04:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:04:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Wanna know something... In-Reply-To: <370A650A.FFB2D5AA@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > And one more thing: > Are these avaible in or only here? Yup, they are the same for attribute values. > > > I sent this message because when I tried to send a message containing > with jabber_win9x (protocol 19991001), it didn't encryped the message and send > > The old windows test client is just that, old and a test client :) It was really just something to be able to see Jabber work and maybe inspire someone to write a better test client. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 6 17:36:22 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27069 for jdev-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:36:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27066 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:36:17 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA28553 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA28193 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA27116 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id RAA27108 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Wanna know something... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:22:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000401be8073$8a493340$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I was not really 'inspired' with it, more 'disgusted'.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie Miller > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:05 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Wanna know something... > > > > And one more thing: > > Are these avaible in or only here? > > Yup, they are the same for attribute values. > > > > > > > I sent this message because when I tried to send a > message containing > > with jabber_win9x (protocol 19991001), it didn't encryped > the message and send > > > > > > The old windows test client is just that, old and a test client :) It was > really just something to be able to see Jabber work and maybe inspire > someone to write a better test client. > > Jer > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 10 15:55:07 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17578 for jdev-list; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:55:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17572 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:58 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id XAA23810 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:16:20 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA22013; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:48:43 +0300 Message-ID: <370FACFA.30968C69@iname.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:56:43 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] XML:Parser for Tcl complete!!! I'm starting to code zABBER... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've completed XML:Parser for Tcl/Tk. If anyone has interest in converting Tcl code to C or whatever language they are using, I'll put it in my webpage, http://waster.8m.com , possibly tonight. Now I'm starting coding zABBER, in protocol 19990324... I didn't put a direct link to zABBER to my main page, but you can see it at http://waster.8m.com/zabber/ The menus are very bad at those pics at my site... They'll be changed as soon as possible... From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 10 16:38:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17875 for jdev-list; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:38:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17871 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:38:21 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id XAA24580 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:59:51 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA22029; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:32:21 +0300 Message-ID: <370FB741.BBF6BC9C@iname.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:40:33 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Some questions... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org 1) Do the status messages include type='away'? I'm away 2) When a client sends I'm offline then _MUST_ it close connection or can it stay and be in a mode like ICQ's privacy (other users won't know he/she's online)? That would be cool... 3) Can users add empty groups? I mean will be accepted. 4) Why I'm always fnishing subjects with three dots? ;-) From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 09:53:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27657 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:53:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA27654 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:53:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:53:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Some questions... In-Reply-To: <370FB741.BBF6BC9C@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > 1) Do the status messages include type='away'? > > I'm away > Because of all of the systems Jabber will be representing, all of the different status types are best represented with a combination of , , and tags. The type='' attributes are only there for a specific need, guaranteed notification from one server to another that a user is online or offline. It's a bit confusing and really needs some real-world usage to smooth it out. A lot of this will likely hinge on the tag, where we do need to come up with a base library of icons any client should try to support: away, busy, not available, happy, sad, working, eating, playing, etc... I'd also like to try and support encoded gifs/bitmaps within the icon tag like: containing the hex encoding of the small bitmap to display for that user. This way the ICQ transport could theoretically send the ICQ icons. Of course, this all also needs some discussion and real world usage :) > 2) When a client sends > > I'm offline > > > then _MUST_ it close connection or can it > stay and be in a mode like ICQ's privacy (other > users won't know he/she's online)? > That would be cool... Absolutely! The server doesn't care and will not disconnect the client, it can stay connected and be invisible, definitely. > 3) Can users add empty groups? I mean > > > > will be accepted. There's nothing to stop this on the server-side, so it becomes a module issue. I'll be supporting it as I suspect most other module authors will, I'll add it into the module authoring guide as "the right thing to do". > 4) Why I'm always fnishing subjects with > three dots? ;-) It's the Tresdot virus! Usually contains tell-tale signs in the message such as "?" and ";-)" *g* Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 13:27:49 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA30650 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:27:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from gulf.csc.UVic.CA (gulf.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.200]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA30647 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:27:45 -0500 From: qbradley@csc.UVic.CA Received: from valdes.csc.UVic.CA (valdes.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.203]) by gulf.csc.UVic.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00373 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by valdes.csc.UVic.CA (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04024; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:27:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: qbradley@valdes To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Large Jabber Messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I was thinking about sending "Voice" messages in Jabber, which are Jabber packets that contain a wave form to be played. They could be quite large. If it was large enough, and the clients connection was slow enough, other messages would pile up behind it while it transferred. This is a natural consequence of having only one Socket. The obvious solution is to use two sockets, one for "bulk" traffic over a certain size, and another for small messages. Happily, there already seems to be a provision for such in Jabber. Clients can log in multiple times as the same user but with different "nicks". It seems that what hasn't been discussed is some kind of attributes, or perhaps "hints" for the server, along the lines of "forward messages of size X or larger to this other nick instead". Just a thought Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 13:52:52 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31547 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31544 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:46 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA20391 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA20352 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA00834 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id NAA00811 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:52:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Large Jabber Messages Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:38:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000101be850b$58297900$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I disagree about the obviouse solution.. The obviouse solution would be to split the large amount of data into smaller packets that can be reassembled at the client end.. In your solution, the messages will still pile up, but in an IP way instead of a Jabber packet way. This is simular to what I've done to allow file transfers by uuencoding, splitting up, and transfering it via multiple packets.. (The source I'm using isn't out there quite yet, hopefully sometime late this week/next weekend.. I want a decent looking Win32 client for 0.6 release) -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > qbradley@csc.UVic.CA > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:28 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] Large Jabber Messages > > > > I was thinking about sending "Voice" messages in Jabber, which are Jabber > packets that contain a wave form to be played. They could be quite large. > If it was large enough, and the clients connection was slow enough, other > messages would pile up behind it while it transferred. This is a natural > consequence of having only one Socket. > > The obvious solution is to use two sockets, one for "bulk" traffic over a > certain size, and another for small messages. > > Happily, there already seems to be a provision for such in Jabber. > Clients can log in multiple times as the same user but with different > "nicks". > > It seems that what hasn't been discussed is some kind of attributes, or > perhaps "hints" for the server, along the lines of "forward messages of > size X or larger to this other nick instead". > > Just a thought > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley > qbradley@csc.uvic.ca > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 13:59:53 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31752 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31748 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:48 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA25024 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA24966 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA05798 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id NAA05792 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Bug report.. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000301be850c$570faf20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Just found a little bug.. Sorry I don't have any server source in front of me, but here's what happens.. Connect to jabber.transport. Before sending ANYTHING, disconnect.. Watch the segfaults fly in the transport.. This can be done by just telnet 5222, and upon the connection being accepted, disconnect.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 14:21:25 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32260 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:21:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins3.netins.net (root@ins3.netins.net [167.142.225.3]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32257 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:21:21 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins3.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10552 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:21:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:21:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Large Jabber Messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well, the one-socket connection scheme isn't really designed to be the carrier for lots of data, either in big messages or in a large constant stream of small ones. It's really just supposed to be the "control" channel where all of the instructions/messages are passed. The bulk of the "data" traffic for large things such as files, voice samples, other multimedia, etc, really needs to go elsewhere. I'm still working on the spec for this stuff that I started a few weeks ago in a post to jdev, to handle bulk data via HTTP/1.1. Simply, a system where: --Client serves data on local high port and sends HTTP URN to other client --Client connects to special HTTP server and PUTs file then sends that URN --Client sends data to "streaming" HTTP server that others recieve from (a-la shoutcast!) --Cleint tells HTTP proxy about self and sends proxy URN to recipient (hides IP address) Basically, Jabber would use/rely on any sort of HTTP system, and this data would be sent to client as URN's that a client can do a simple GET. It's an existing and proven way to do this stuff, and there's lots of experience and code out there. I just need to sit down and detail out how it would specifically interact with Jabber and at what level, but I'm working on 0.6 at the moment so well see after that's released :) Jer On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 qbradley@csc.UVic.CA wrote: > > I was thinking about sending "Voice" messages in Jabber, which are Jabber > packets that contain a wave form to be played. They could be quite large. > If it was large enough, and the clients connection was slow enough, other > messages would pile up behind it while it transferred. This is a natural > consequence of having only one Socket. > > The obvious solution is to use two sockets, one for "bulk" traffic over a > certain size, and another for small messages. > > Happily, there already seems to be a provision for such in Jabber. > Clients can log in multiple times as the same user but with different > "nicks". > > It seems that what hasn't been discussed is some kind of attributes, or > perhaps "hints" for the server, along the lines of "forward messages of > size X or larger to this other nick instead". > > Just a thought > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley > qbradley@csc.uvic.ca > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 14:27:10 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32314 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:27:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32310 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:27:06 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA13640 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA13608 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA25437 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id OAA25420 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Bug report.. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:13:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be8510$29c50020$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <000301be850c$570faf20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org A little more about this.. I pulled last nights snap, and I've narrowed it down to something that happens during the free_xptpool during the free_conn call. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Thomas Charron > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:46 PM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: [JDEV] Bug report.. > > > Just found a little bug.. Sorry I don't have any server > source in front of > me, but here's what happens.. > > Connect to jabber.transport. Before sending ANYTHING, > disconnect.. Watch > the segfaults fly in the transport.. > > This can be done by just telnet 5222, and upon the connection being > accepted, disconnect.. > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 14:46:03 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00149 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00144 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:57 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA26728 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA26653 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA08371 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id OAA08341 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Bug report.. UPDATE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:32:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be8512$c93127e0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <000301be850c$570faf20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Yes another update.. I'll now hand this over to you guys.. The error is becouse of a call to XML_ParserFree(xp->parser); in free_xptpool. Actually, I can now tellyou exactly what it is (As I was writing the above it hit me like a brick..) xpt_packet_new, which creates the parser for a connection, isn't called untill the dispatch loop in handle.c. And it isn't called untill there is a call to dispatch with an IO_NORMAL flag. When a disconnection comes before ANY data is sent over the line, there IS no call to xpt_packet_new, and hence causes XML_ParserFree to belch as it attempts to free something that isn't there.. I'd love to trouble shoot it further, but I glanced at XMLParserFree, and I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of xmlparse.c. Could we simply have xpt_packet_new as soon as a connection is made, instead of checking for it every time dispatch is called? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Thomas Charron > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:46 PM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: [JDEV] Bug report.. > > > Just found a little bug.. Sorry I don't have any server > source in front of > me, but here's what happens.. > > Connect to jabber.transport. Before sending ANYTHING, > disconnect.. Watch > the segfaults fly in the transport.. > > This can be done by just telnet 5222, and upon the connection being > accepted, disconnect.. > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 14:46:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00163 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins2.netins.net (ins2.netins.net [167.142.225.2]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00159 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:15 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins2.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18152 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Bug report.. In-Reply-To: <000501be8510$29c50020$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Fixed it... there was some neglected code that was unhappy, I set it straight :) Jer A NULL here A NULL there Everywhere a NULL NULL On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > A little more about this.. I pulled last nights snap, and I've narrowed it > down to something that happens during the free_xptpool during the free_conn > call. > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > > Thomas Charron > > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:46 PM > > To: Jabber Development > > Subject: [JDEV] Bug report.. > > > > > > Just found a little bug.. Sorry I don't have any server > > source in front of > > me, but here's what happens.. > > > > Connect to jabber.transport. Before sending ANYTHING, > > disconnect.. Watch > > the segfaults fly in the transport.. > > > > This can be done by just telnet 5222, and upon the connection being > > accepted, disconnect.. > > > > -- > > Thomas Charron > > United Parcel Service > > Northeast Region > > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 16:18:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00680 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:18:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00677 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:17:59 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id XAA22480 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:39:37 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA23059; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:12:14 +0300 Message-ID: <37125581.527017B6@iname.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:20:17 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] More questions (I won't put three dots, I WON'T, I WOOONN'T) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org 1) Are george@jabber.server.org and george@jabber2.server.org the same person? If they are the same person, then what will you do if something like 27216346@ICQ and 27216346@jabber.server.org appears. If you will say that there won't be any loginnames starting with numbers, then how would you guarantee that AIM, or otherthings (:-) won't accept registering if there is jenny@jabber.server.org on Jabber and the user trying to register a loginname called jenny? (Simply say 'NO' to the first question, so you'll not have to answer all of this ;) ) I couldn't find any more questions now, but I'll send if I find any. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 16:30:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00860 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:30:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins8.netins.net (ins8.netins.net [167.142.225.8]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00857 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:30:18 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins8.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA25693 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:30:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:30:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] More questions (I won't put three dots, I WON'T, I WOOONN'T) In-Reply-To: <37125581.527017B6@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > 1) Are george@jabber.server.org and george@jabber2.server.org > the same person? Nope, but they can be if it's the same physical box and the jabber.server.org transport decides to have an alias of jabber2.server.org. Normally though, they would be seperate. > If they are the same person, then what will > you do if something like 27216346@ICQ and 27216346@jabber.server.org > appears. If you will say that there won't be any loginnames starting with numbers, > then how would you guarantee that AIM, or otherthings (:-) won't accept > registering if there is jenny@jabber.server.org on Jabber and the user > trying to register a loginname called jenny? > (Simply say 'NO' to the first question, so you'll not have to answer all of this ;) ) Guess I answered that one :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 16:49:26 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01021 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:49:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01018 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:49:20 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA23348 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:10:59 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA23068; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:43:33 +0300 Message-ID: <37125CD7.B7633CA4@iname.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:51:35 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] XML:Parser for Tcl complete!!! I'm starting to code zABBER... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've put it at http://waster.8m.com/xmlparser/ Yes, I'm writing it. 8m.com seems to have a problem with their server now, I can't connect although it finds host, I think it'll be fixed until tomorrow ;( If you like to get it with ICQ now, my ICQ UIN is 27216346 Jeremie wrote: > Is there a URL for more information on the XML:Parser for Tcl/Tk? I > couldn't find anything, is this somehting that you are writing? > > Cool stuff! > > Jer > > On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Waster_ wrote: > > > I've completed XML:Parser for Tcl/Tk. If anyone has interest > > in converting Tcl code to C or whatever language they are using, > > I'll put it in my webpage, http://waster.8m.com , possibly tonight. > > Now I'm starting coding zABBER, in protocol 19990324... > > > > > > I didn't put a direct link to zABBER to my main page, but > > you can see it at http://waster.8m.com/zabber/ > > > > > > > > The menus are very bad at those pics at my site... They'll be > > changed as soon as possible... > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 17:18:47 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01249 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:18:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01245 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:18:36 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA24005 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:40:13 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA23135; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:12:31 +0300 Message-ID: <371263A0.6AD17029@iname.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:20:32 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] zABBER snapshot - 12.04.1999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've uploaded zABBER snapshot (12.04.1999) to my homepage. Get it at http://waster.8m.com/zabber/ Supports +All server2client messages (protocol 19990324) supported -In the status message, it doesn't even control for tag, and it supports -When getting a message, it doesn't control tag. -It doesn't control for tags in messages (I don't think it has to do it now) -It doesn't connect to anywhere now, but I put a debug window that you can send _raw_ messages as you're server, but don't worry, connect code is just 3 lines, not more. ------- Didn't update the screenshots yet, I'll do it sooner. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 17:22:25 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01280 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:22:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01276 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:22:21 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id RAB04571 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA14889 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id QAB29754 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id QAA29745 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:40:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Transport<->Jabberbox validation.. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:27:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01be8522$e61a0600$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well, I've spent a fewhours hacking out the socket code for the Windows client (It actually CONNECTS and sends/recieves stuff now). Ideas have popped up in doing so.. How will the transports validate with jabberbox? We don't want transports to blindly be able to attach to jabberbox's. That be bigum moola bad.. I could simply 'attach' as a rouge transport and start flooding messages, or attach as a known transport, and start sending messages from users even though they are not attached to me.. Blech.. You'd get: jeremieTwOlfHEY big boy, let's get busy.. TwOlfjeremieI can't stand it anymore, I want your body.. Now, while the above would end up being humerouse as hell to watch if it where sent out by a rouge transport, we need to find a way to ensure it doesn't happen. Heck, what about rogue jabberbox's attaching to valid jabberbox's.. How will the server validate each other? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 19:34:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01899 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:34:42 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-26.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.155]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01895 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:34:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03744 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:34:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:34:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Transport<->Jabberbox validation.. In-Reply-To: <000f01be8522$e61a0600$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Well, I've spent a fewhours hacking out the socket code for the Windows > client (It actually CONNECTS and sends/recieves stuff now). Ideas have > popped up in doing so.. Awesome, sounds like fun :) > How will the transports validate with jabberbox? We don't want transports > to blindly be able to attach to jabberbox's. That be bigum moola bad.. I > [message compressed] > jabberbox's.. How will the server validate each other? Jabber takes the same approach as email when it comes to other servers. Basically, the JabberBox accepts incoming connections from any transport that connects to it. It just operates as a "router" and tries not to get involved in the data that it's routing, and the Jabber Transport will just deliver the data to the client. Jabber is not going to inherently be any safer than email is, but if you want guaranteed safety it should be easy using mod_digsig and a client that understands crypto :) Besides, because of Jabber's fundamental design that allows the transparent connectivity to other IM systems, you have to allow for the levels of security in those systems, which might as well not be considered "security", *grin*. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 22:49:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02647 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:49:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02644 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:49:11 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA06278 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA06264 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id QAB29754 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id QAA29745 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:40:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Transport<->Jabberbox validation.. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:27:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01be8522$e61a0600$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well, I've spent a fewhours hacking out the socket code for the Windows client (It actually CONNECTS and sends/recieves stuff now). Ideas have popped up in doing so.. How will the transports validate with jabberbox? We don't want transports to blindly be able to attach to jabberbox's. That be bigum moola bad.. I could simply 'attach' as a rouge transport and start flooding messages, or attach as a known transport, and start sending messages from users even though they are not attached to me.. Blech.. You'd get: jeremieTwOlfHEY big boy, let's get busy.. TwOlfjeremieI can't stand it anymore, I want your body.. Now, while the above would end up being humerouse as hell to watch if it where sent out by a rouge transport, we need to find a way to ensure it doesn't happen. Heck, what about rogue jabberbox's attaching to valid jabberbox's.. How will the server validate each other? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 12 22:50:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02663 for jdev-list; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:50:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02659 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:50:01 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA06746 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA06735 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA00777 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id QAA00764 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] More questions (I won't put three dots, I WON'T, I WOOONN'T)...... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:29:08 -0400 Message-ID: <001001be8523$1e25dce0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <37125581.527017B6@iname.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org NO.. ;-P Oh, and due to a lack of three dots in the original message, I included 6.. Pleasedon;t short me on dots again.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Waster_ > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:20 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] More questions (I won't put three dots, I WON'T, I > WOOONN'T) > > > 1) Are george@jabber.server.org and george@jabber2.server.org > the same person? If they are the same person, then what will > you do if something like 27216346@ICQ and 27216346@jabber.server.org > appears. If you will say that there won't be any loginnames > starting with numbers, > then how would you guarantee that AIM, or otherthings (:-) > won't accept > registering if there is jenny@jabber.server.org on Jabber and the user > trying to register a loginname called jenny? > (Simply say 'NO' to the first question, so you'll not > have to answer all of this ;) ) > > > I couldn't find any more questions now, but I'll send if I find any. > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 11:31:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06409 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:31:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06406 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:31:18 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA12329 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA10825 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA22642 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id LAA22631 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: [JDEV] Jabberbox validation, WINE and JabberClient.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:13:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000301be85c0$29d6a360$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Transport<->Jabberbox validation.. > Awesome, sounds like fun :) Didn't have any time last night to do a checkin, look for an actual working version tonight, that will allow sending/recieving of messages.. No 'Buddy Lists' yet, but I'm trying to make sure all of the backendstuff isgoingto work OK. I need to add more intelligent error handling on the socket connection itself, like catchinga disconnect as soon as it happens,and not several seconds later.. (Ok, so I'm anal and want to catch things as they happen,and not when the program happens to notice them.. Sue me..;-P ) I have donesome thinking of how my client will run under Wine, and I'm not sure how it will.. Currently, it resides in the system tray just like all of the other messaging products, and I've never tried to run system tray apps under Wine.. How does Wine treat them, as it doesn't have a System Tray to put it? Anyone know? > Jabber takes the same approach as email when it comes to other servers. > Basically, the JabberBox accepts incoming connections from any transport > that connects to it. It just operates as a "router" and tries not to get > involved in the data that it's routing, and the Jabber Transport will just > deliver the data to the client. Hrm.. I think we need to sit back and think about this.. Since we're going to allow admin messages to come back and forth thru the transports, we need something a little more then SMTP mail transfer currently does.. At a MINUMUM, we should: Do a reverse lookup on the IP to ensure that the transport IS coming from where it says it is. Upon connection, have some sort of XML handshake that generates a unique 'Key' that will be used for a random amount of time. Perhaps this should be done thru a 'validation socket' that is different from the server socket. The Client communicating will request a key, and we can then transfer it on another socket (Perhaps HTML via an SSL socket?). And the server should send it to the client, not have the client get it, and use the cached IP address, NOT the name, as DNS spoofing could be used to get around it if sending to the name intead of the IP. I may be seeming paranoid, but I DON'T want to see any simple hacks on www.rootshell.com to allow attacks on Jabber users. If that happens, thefirst time it's announced will cause knowledgable users to flee like teens from hard work.. ;-P > Jabber is not going to inherently be any safer than email is, but if you > want guaranteed safety it should be easy using mod_digsig and a client > that understands crypto :) But we need to do something.. As said, if we DO allow admin messages to flow, weneed to secure these. At least make it REALLY hard to hack it.. > Besides, because of Jabber's fundamental design that allows the > transparent connectivity to other IM systems, you have to allow for the > levels of security in those systems, which might as well not be considered > "security", *grin*. Yes, but I don't think that any external system should be able to do admin messages myself.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 12:20:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06768 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:20:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins8.netins.net (ins8.netins.net [167.142.225.8]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06765 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:20:10 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins8.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00295 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:20:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:20:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabberbox validation, WINE and JabberClient.. In-Reply-To: <000301be85c0$29d6a360$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Didn't have any time last night to do a checkin, look for an actual working > version tonight, that will allow sending/recieving of messages.. No 'Buddy > Lists' yet, but I'm trying to make sure all of the backendstuff isgoingto > work OK. I need to add more intelligent error handling on the socket > connection itself, like catchinga disconnect as soon as it happens,and not > several seconds later.. (Ok, so I'm anal and want to catch things as they > happen,and not when the program happens to notice them.. Sue me..;-P ) Wow, I can't wait! Xool! > I have donesome thinking of how my client will run under Wine, and I'm not > sure how it will.. Currently, it resides in the system tray just like all > of the other messaging products, and I've never tried to run system tray > apps under Wine.. How does Wine treat them, as it doesn't have a System > Tray to put it? Anyone know? I've wondered the same thing... maybe I'll grab a snapshot of wine and try it out tonight... > Hrm.. I think we need to sit back and think about this.. Since we're > going to allow admin messages to come back and forth thru the transports, Admin messages? Well, I'd definately like to restrict ANY sort of admin functionality to ONLY _directly_ connected and _authenticated_ admin users, not via any transports. We'll touch on this later when there is actually something to admin :) > we need something a little more then SMTP mail transfer currently > does.. At a MINUMUM, we should: > > Do a reverse lookup on the IP to ensure that the transport IS coming from > where it says it is. Icky... that would break SO many things and it doesn't really offer any more security(you can't trust TCP at all, its all breakable if you really know what your doing and many do). The other problem is that even if the reverse matched the connected IP and provided name, it might be a rouge transport that sends encapsulated fake messages, and Jabberbox doesn't look at the actual data it's handling, it just passes it on like any good router. > Upon connection, have some sort of XML handshake that generates a unique > 'Key' that will be used for a random amount of time. Perhaps this should be > done thru a 'validation socket' that is different from the server socket. > The Client communicating will request a key, and we can then transfer it on > another socket (Perhaps HTML via an SSL socket?). And the server should > send it to the client, not have the client get it, and use the cached IP > address, NOT the name, as DNS spoofing could be used to get around it if > sending to the name intead of the IP. > > I may be seeming paranoid, but I DON'T want to see any simple hacks on > www.rootshell.com to allow attacks on Jabber users. If that happens, > thefirst time it's announced will cause knowledgable users to flee like > teens from hard work.. ;-P I get spoofed email and spam all day, but I don't see those on rootshell :) We need to be very careful to not allow any "access" to personal information or holes in clients that would allow access to a users computer. Other than that, we will be dealing with the same "trust" issues that email has. There is a whole bucket of worms here waiting to be dealt with. I think if it's made clear up front that if you need absolute security in your instant messaging you should use one of the secure clients that can sign messages and login via mod_digsig, otherwise the messages you are receiving may NOT be genuine. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 13:40:40 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07207 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:40:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07204 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:40:36 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA15543 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA15027 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA10549 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id NAA10542 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Yet another SegFault party.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:26:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be85d2$bdf79ba0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Alrighty, the disconnection segfault was fixed, but now I have yet another one.. Connect to the transport. Login. Do Stuff.. Send . Watch the segfault fly once again. ;-P It does the handle_logout, but belches soon after. Here is the a retype of the last few lines of the debug logs: DISPATCH=(NULL) Recieved XML close=(NULL) handle_logout=(NULL) Looking up session (user)= Removing Session =(NULL) Looking up session(user)=(NULL) Segmentation fault (core dumped) This is what I'm actually sending thru: TwOlfcrapheadWolfie TwOlfHEY The isn't sent untill I tell it to disconnect, soyes, the message get's thru the the client correctly.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 14:25:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07977 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:25:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07974 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:25:32 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA13380 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA13009 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA10131 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id OAA10099 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Perl Transport, more data on segfault parties.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:11:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be85d9$0233cfe0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey, what's the status of Jabberbox itself as far as inter-transport routing? I startedup the perl test transport, and sent a message from my client to foo@perl, and it never got out to the perl transport. It doesn't even look like it got to jabberbox from jabber.transport. Also, during a gdb of the core dump upon disconnection, it looks like it's dumping on the call to strdup on line 184 of lib_status.c. It's this: s->status_ext = strdup(ext); Take it away, guys.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 14:45:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08514 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:45:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins13.netins.net (root@ins13.netins.net [167.142.225.13]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08511 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:45:50 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins13.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13508 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:45:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:45:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Yet another SegFault party.. In-Reply-To: <000001be85d2$bdf79ba0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Fixed... some local memory was being passed around obliterating everything it touched, all happy now on this bug. On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > Alrighty, the disconnection segfault was fixed, but now I have yet another > one.. > > Connect to the transport. Login. Do Stuff.. Send . Watch the > segfault fly once again. ;-P It does the handle_logout, but belches soon > after. Here is the a retype of the last few lines of the debug logs: > > DISPATCH=(NULL) > Recieved XML close=(NULL) > handle_logout=(NULL) > Looking up session (user)= > Removing Session =(NULL) > Looking up session(user)=(NULL) > Segmentation fault (core dumped) > > This is what I'm actually sending thru: > > > > TwOlfcrapheadWolfie > TwOlfHEY > > > The isn't sent untill I tell it to disconnect, soyes, the message > get's thru the the client correctly.. > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 15:16:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09084 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09081 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:10 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA10316 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA04972 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA02271 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id MAA02265 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:33:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Zabber.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:19:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be85c9$79cc37a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Are we going to be adding zabber to the CVS tree under clients? Just something that I wasn't sure if was addressed as of yet.. It may be usefull being there, as it will now also have the Tcl/TK XML parser, which people may find useful for Tcl transports.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 15:36:22 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09322 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:36:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins8.netins.net (ins8.netins.net [167.142.225.8]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09319 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:36:18 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins8.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27431 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:36:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:36:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Perl Transport, more data on segfault parties.. In-Reply-To: <000001be85d9$0233cfe0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hey, what's the status of Jabberbox itself as far as inter-transport > routing? I startedup the perl test transport, and sent a message from my > client to foo@perl, and it never got out to the perl transport. It doesn't > even look like it got to jabberbox from jabber.transport. Well, they were getting there, just not quite correctly. I fixed it now and messages to user@foo will be sent to the transport, and @perl will hit the test perl transport if you have it running. I need to take a second look at some of the external-data code, at how it identifies the local user in either a or something else... more later... > Also, during a gdb of the core dump upon disconnection, it looks like it's > dumping on the call to strdup on line 184 of lib_status.c. It's this: > > s->status_ext = strdup(ext); > > Take it away, guys.. ;-P That was another bug that I fixed, but only a characteristic of the larger nasty memory bug I zapped. Let me know if you find any more nasties, fun for me :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 15:37:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09338 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:37:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins13.netins.net (root@ins13.netins.net [167.142.225.13]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09335 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:37:30 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins13.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19504 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:37:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:37:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. In-Reply-To: <000001be85c9$79cc37a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Are we going to be adding zabber to the CVS tree under clients? Just > something that I wasn't sure if was addressed as of yet.. It may be usefull > being there, as it will now also have the Tcl/TK XML parser, which people > may find useful for Tcl transports.. I'd be happy to! If anyone else wants CVS space for their Jabber-related project, just let me know! Thanks, Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 18:09:45 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10467 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:09:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10464 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:09:39 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id BAA07855 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:31:25 +0200 (TSI) Received: from cn-async-host-0020.comnet.com.tr by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA23713; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:03:58 +0300 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:09:32 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] (void) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hi. is there a (ncurses) widget set for the console? ;) (well, this may seem a bit off-topic, but i will use it for the console version of cabbar, so it's not :P ) bye, disqk Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 22:59:43 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11646 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:59:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11643 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:59:39 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA13390 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA13315 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA08444 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id PAA08425 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:54:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Reasons for testing perl transport.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:41:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be85e5$9a8401a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Anyway, just to letcha know, I actually have a quickie transport using the perl transport as a base that will be able to send out AlphaNumeric pages to Mobilecomm pagers via their web page. Basically, a client will be able to send a message like this: 167289@mcomtransport Heya Jerk Why didn't you call me last night? Don't bother yes And it'll page pager ## 167289, and their little pager window will show: Heya Jerk: Why didn't you call me last night? Don't bother I'm actually looking to use this one at work, but I figured I could toss it back into the project for others to use.. I may end up making a generic paging transport that can handle multiple providers, and have it specify the provider in the ext tag.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 22:59:18 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11641 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:59:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11638 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:59:13 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA13192 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id WAA13076 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA16106 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id PAA16094 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:19:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] More data on Perl transport.. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:06:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000801be85e0$aca02ee0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Upon sending a message to foo@perl, jabberbox reports getting the packet FROM jabber.transport, but jabberbox itself never reports SENDING it to the perl transport with a: lib "IO: writing data to =127.0.0.1" It simply does this (I'm adding the --------- to seperate the lines..): --------- lib "IO: waiting =" --------- lib "IO: new data from =127.0.0.1" --------- jabberbox "DISPATCH=TwOlfTestingHEYfoo@pe rl" --------- jabberbox "Processing normally=" --------- jabberbox "TRANSPORT: fetching=" --------- lib "IO: waiting =" --------- -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 23:07:52 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11795 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:07:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11792 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:07:48 -0500 Received: from troz (sdn-ar-006mnminnP143.dialsprint.net [168.191.109.207]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08627 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004c01be86ee$167bc0a0$cf6dbfa8@troz> From: "Michael T. Nygard" To: References: Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:14:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'd love to get JabberBean under public CVS. First, though, I'd like your opinion. At this point, it has much of the protocol framework in place, as well as event management. It doesn't have the full protocol implemented, however, and no GUI is in place yet. Would you rather I waited until its farther along, or is it worth checking in at this early stage? Cheers, -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. > > Are we going to be adding zabber to the CVS tree under clients? Just > > something that I wasn't sure if was addressed as of yet.. It may be usefull > > being there, as it will now also have the Tcl/TK XML parser, which people > > may find useful for Tcl transports.. > > I'd be happy to! If anyone else wants CVS space for their Jabber-related > project, just let me know! > > Thanks, > > Jer > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 13 23:15:29 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11922 for jdev-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:15:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from gulf.csc.UVic.CA (gulf.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.200]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11918 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:15:25 -0500 From: qbradley@csc.UVic.CA Received: from valdes.csc.UVic.CA (valdes.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.203]) by gulf.csc.UVic.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA04642 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by valdes.csc.UVic.CA (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA24064; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:15:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: qbradley@valdes To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. In-Reply-To: <004c01be86ee$167bc0a0$cf6dbfa8@troz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'd love to take a look at JabberBean myseelf. Lets put it in CVS. And if it doesn't make it in, why don't you send it my way? Thanks, Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Michael T. Nygard wrote: > I'd love to get JabberBean under public CVS. First, though, I'd like your > opinion. At this point, it has much of the protocol framework in place, as > well as event management. It doesn't have the full protocol implemented, > however, and no GUI is in place yet. Would you rather I waited until its > farther along, or is it worth checking in at this early stage? > > Cheers, > -Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeremie Miller > To: Jabber Development > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. > > > > > Are we going to be adding zabber to the CVS tree under clients? Just > > > something that I wasn't sure if was addressed as of yet.. It may be > usefull > > > being there, as it will now also have the Tcl/TK XML parser, which > people > > > may find useful for Tcl transports.. > > > > I'd be happy to! If anyone else wants CVS space for their Jabber-related > > project, just let me know! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jer > > > > > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 14 02:05:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12636 for jdev-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 02:05:28 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-34.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.163]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA12633 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 02:05:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09212 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:05:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:05:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Reasons for testing perl transport.. In-Reply-To: <000001be85e5$9a8401a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Anyway, just to letcha know, I actually have a quickie transport using the > perl transport as a base that will be able to send out AlphaNumeric pages to > Mobilecomm pagers via their web page. Basically, a client will be able to > send a message like this: > [...] > I may end up making a generic paging transport that can handle multiple > providers, and have it specify the provider in the ext tag.. Very nice, this is one of the first things I was going to be writing, so yes, it will probably be handy for others :) I was going to take the approach that the pager-providing service actually be a Jabber client(multi-client if you're familiar with how that works) and log in on behalf of that user but have a low priority session. This means that other Jabber users that have you on their list will see one of your sessions identified as a "pager" and can send messages to it, they might see "work", "server shell", "home", and "pager" and could send a message to you if you are away or it's an emergency... In any case, pager stuff is a must, it's one reason I'm doing Jabber, so I can extend it all kinds of cool ways and still talk to my old buddies on other IM systems :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 14 02:07:22 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12654 for jdev-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 02:07:22 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-34.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.163]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA12650 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 02:07:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09217 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:07:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:07:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] More data on Perl transport.. In-Reply-To: <000801be85e0$aca02ee0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Upon sending a message to foo@perl, jabberbox reports getting the packet > FROM jabber.transport, but jabberbox itself never reports SENDING it to the > perl transport with a: You have an old copy, I fixed this bug this afternoon, do a cvs update, er, you can grab the snapshot that was just made at midnight also :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 14 14:29:09 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17357 for jdev-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:29:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17354 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:29:02 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA10683 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA10610 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA00807 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id OAA00798 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:27:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] XML::Parser Part II Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:14:55 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01be86a2$b3018dc0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Wow, not only is it based on expat, but TAKE a look at THIS functionality!!: $p2 = new XML::Parser(Handlers => {Start => \&handle_start, End => \&handle_end, Char => \&handle_char}); $p2->parse($socket); Set up your handlers, open the socket, and let the sucker run, passing the open socket to the parser!! -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 14 14:40:43 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17467 for jdev-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:40:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17463 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:40:39 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA15522 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA08932 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA28233 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id OAA28220 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] XML::Parser Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:10:19 -0400 Message-ID: <001901be86a2$0f937ae0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'm curiouse if anyone has ever taken a look at this perl module.. I'm reading a write up on it, and it basically says it's actually BASED on expat in how it works, only in perl instead.. It's event driven, and actually functions nearly exactly the same AS expat.. The entire xpt package we're using could be rewritten in perl for usein perl modules, it looks like.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 14 15:13:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17723 for jdev-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:13:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins8.netins.net (ins8.netins.net [167.142.225.8]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17720 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:13:31 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins8.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10718 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:13:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:13:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] XML::Parser Part II In-Reply-To: <001a01be86a2$b3018dc0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Wow, not only is it based on expat, but TAKE a look at THIS > functionality!!: > > $p2 = new XML::Parser(Handlers => {Start => \&handle_start, > End => \&handle_end, > Char => \&handle_char}); > $p2->parse($socket); > > Set up your handlers, open the socket, and let the sucker run, passing the > open socket to the parser!! Yup, pretty awesome, eh? I'm using it on jabber.org for some of the back-end perl scripts. Someday here I was going to flesh out a Net::Jabber module to make using Jabber as a client from a perl script insanely easy, just haven't gotten there yet. Also, a Net::JabberBox module would allow a perl script to become a transport quite easily... If I only had more time :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 15 11:52:55 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA24853 for jdev-list; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:52:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24850 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:52:52 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA13107 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA19876 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA05544 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id KAA05536 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Little problem with jabberbox that I can't track down.. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:40:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be874d$e53463c0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Guys, I've got a little problem that has me confused, perhaps someone can give me some insight.. When running jabberbox on a RedHat 5.2 (glibc) based machine, everythings fine.. If I compile and run it on my HOME machine, which is Slackware (libc5) based machine, it comes up with: [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "config=config.x" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "parsing_file=config.x" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "Creating new XML Parser pool" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "Unable to open log file!" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "JabberBox starting" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "IO: collecting data" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "dispatch_data=(NULL)" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "Initialization from IO loop" [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "Created parent net socket" net socket: Address already in use I've quadruple checked, the addresses are NOT in use.. The log file in /tmp get's created, but there's nothing in it. (The above says it can't becouse I removed the log line in config.x, to see if not using the Log file would fix it in some strange way..) The net socket: Address already in use message is NOT part of jabberbox's code as far as I can grep, nor in the lib code. Any idea's? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 15 12:28:34 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25173 for jdev-list; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:28:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins13.netins.net (root@ins13.netins.net [167.142.225.13]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25170 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:28:32 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins13.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21699 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:28:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:28:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Little problem with jabberbox that I can't track down.. In-Reply-To: <000001be874d$e53463c0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > When running jabberbox on a RedHat 5.2 (glibc) based machine, everythings > fine.. If I compile and run it on my HOME machine, which is Slackware > (libc5) based machine, it comes up with: > > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "config=config.x" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "parsing_file=config.x" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "Creating new XML Parser pool" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "Unable to open log file!" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "JabberBox starting" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "IO: collecting data" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "dispatch_data=(NULL)" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] main "Initialization from IO loop" > [Thu Apr 15 22:51:44 1999] lib "Created parent net socket" > net socket: Address already in use > > I've quadruple checked, the addresses are NOT in use.. The log file in > /tmp get's created, but there's nothing in it. (The above says it can't > becouse I removed the log line in config.x, to see if not using the Log file > would fix it in some strange way..) I'm still smoothing out the debugging/error stuff, that's why you still get the "Unable to open log file" when you didn't configure one. > The net socket: Address already in use > message is NOT part of jabberbox's code as far as I can grep, nor in the lib > code. Any idea's? As far as the message "net socket: Address already in use" goes, it's begin generated from this line in /jabberbox/handle.c: h_err(s, "net socket"); Why you're getting it though, I'm not sure... At the point where it is generated, it created a socket on port 5269 with the address listed in your configuration directive. Do a netstat -a and look for a line like: tcp 0 0 yourhostname:5269 *:* LISTEN Meaning that there is a process actively listening on that port somewhere :) Do you EVER get it to start, or is it always doing this no matter what? Thanks, Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 15 13:33:11 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25490 for jdev-list; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:33:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25486 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:33:07 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA19587 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA15668 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA01085 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id NAA01079 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:21:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Little problem with jabberbox that I can't track down.. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:08:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be8762$9ce12c60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie Miller > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:29 PM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Little problem with jabberbox that I can't track > down.. > As far as the message "net socket: Address already in use" goes, it's > begin generated from this line in /jabberbox/handle.c: > h_err(s, "net socket"); Yep, found that.. ;-P > Why you're getting it though, I'm not sure... At the point where it is > generated, it created a socket on port 5269 with the address listed in > your configuration directive. Do a netstat -a and look > for a line like: > Do you EVER get it to start, or is it always doing this no matter what? See the posting I made over on Jabber CVS. I moved it over there.. ;-P Yes, I can get it running, see the changes I needed to make there.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 15 19:59:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27157 for jdev-list; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:59:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from saturn.nildram.co.uk (saturn.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.22]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27154 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:59:29 -0500 Received: from ewans (ppp47-130.dial.nildram.co.uk [195.112.47.130]) by saturn.nildram.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA25942 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:00:14 GMT From: "Ewan Leith" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] xml parser Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:00:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be879c$34d86f40$822f70c3@ewans> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org ive been on this list for a while now (lurking mostly tho), but ive noticed a few peeps asking about an xml parsel/development tool. well mozilla M4 has a built in xml parser so should make testing of xml a little easier. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release-notes/m4.html Ewan From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 08:20:27 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29475 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:20:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29472 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:20:24 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id IAA05220 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colossus.ups.com (colossus.ups.com [198.80.14.101]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with SMTP id IAA05216 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com by colossus.ups.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA03307; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:19:53 -0400 From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] xml parser Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:06:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000201be8801$9c1f62c0$0100000a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <000001be879c$34d86f40$822f70c3@ewans> Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Err, not to downplay Mozilla or anything, but they have used the expat XML library, the very same one that Jabberbox, jabber.transport, Jabber CLI client, and Win32 client are using. Oh, and most likely many of theperl based transports will use XML::Parser, which is, once again, based on expat.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Ewan Leith > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 8:01 PM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: [JDEV] xml parser > > > ive been on this list for a while now (lurking mostly tho), but > ive noticed > a few peeps asking about an xml parsel/development tool. well > mozilla M4 has > a built in xml parser so should make testing of xml a little easier. > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release-notes/m4.html Ewan From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 08:27:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29582 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:27:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29579 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:27:20 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id IAA08762 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colossus2.ups.com (colossus2.ups.com [198.80.14.102]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with SMTP id IAA08581 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com by colossus2.ups.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA07641; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:26:15 -0400 From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:13:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be8802$804e9ba0$0100000a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've got a silly question.. Why are transports communicating with jabberbox the way they are? Why not make the transport<->jabberbox protocol more like the client<->transport prototol, but use instead of ?? I've been messing with the perl XML::Parser module, and in order to parse messages, I need to basically catch the Char data within the default handler becouse it's within the ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:37:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:37:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. In-Reply-To: <000501be8802$804e9ba0$0100000a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I've got a silly question.. The most important kind! (seriously, many don't ask silly questions because they think they are just missing something but are really something everyone is wondering :) > Why are transports communicating with jabberbox the way they are? Why not > make the transport<->jabberbox protocol more like the client<->transport > prototol, but use instead of ?? Long answer or short answer? Short answer: if it _wasn't_ encapsulated in CDATA secions, that means that (by definition) it would all have to be parsed into memory then recreated into strings, when the original and final are identical. For a busy JabberBox I wouldn't consider this a simple task :) Long answer: JabberBox acts as an independant data "router" that just transfers those CDATA chunks as strings reading/writing to different sockets and understanding addressing... when an internet router moves packets around, it just looks at the headers and sends the data chunks on, this is a similiar scheme. The only safe way to do this in XML is to use the special sections as the containers for the data chunks. Look at this as a feature, being that JabberBox can be used in a more general purpose fashion... because of this speration of routing and data, you can connect as a transport and send another transport ANY strings you want, it doesn't have to be XML, or leagl XML, so long as the sender and recipient understand it. > I've been messing with the perl XML::Parser module, and in order to parse > messages, I need to basically catch the Char data within the default handler > becouse it's within the it..). Why do it this way? Yes, all transports will have to employ two parser instances, one to parse the JabberBox routed packets, and one to parse the actual packet that was delivered. Once you understand this, it doesn't turn out to be that difficult, just a little different. Thanks for asking though... this stuff needs to become part of the docs! Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 11:57:50 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA30933 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:57:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA30930 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:57:47 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA16657 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA16569 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA28207 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA28200 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:56:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. Tom's a Moron.. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:43:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be881f$f10430e0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Ok, that works.. I was just curiouse.. This DOES make the most logical sense.. Now, >here's another silly question.. I've found that expat spits out the the CDATA segment to the > (Char handler I think?). Is there a way to tell expat to send CDATA segments to another > function beside's the Char or Default? Ok, I'm a moron who didn't read hard enough.. XML::Parser declares a CdataStart and CdataEnd handler.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 13:12:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31399 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:12:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31395 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:12:28 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA23432 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA20819 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA11037 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id MAA11032 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:58:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Additional Uses of Jabber.. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000201be8828$858c8200$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Ok, I'll try to explain what I was talking about earlier with the capabilities of the Jabber System. I was thinking the other day.. "Ya know, it'd be great if I used Jabber as a way to communicate between servers, send error messages, etc..". And it his me.. I can.. Here are some examples of what I'm thinking of.. On certain failures of parts of a server, I'd like it to be able to page out a message. I'd also like it to me able to transfer files between servers, such as reports, etc.. Perhaps even send out a list of 'new files' that need to be changed.. Currently, I need to manually place these files on some 80+ servers worldwide. Instead of building on all of these, I could simply 'Jabber Enable' these applications, and they could comminicate via messages with each other. Once things like Server Side storage of messages happen, I wouldn't have to worry myself about delivery of the messages, as Jabber would take care of it FOR me.. Using Jabber would mean I wouldn't have to include all of the different code required, etc, to each program, and I could easily 'Jabberify' any application, and 'Poof', it has access to everything I've done before.. I'm not really DOING this right now, as Jabber really has to prove it can work on a wider scale then just testing right now before I could even come CLOSE to suggesting it to my boss. What I AM doing is activly looking at transports that I can make that would help serve this purpose. The two that I actually have worked on are file transfer abilities, and a pager transport. Both are in perl, as I simply LOVE perl, and it is very cross platform with no intervention required beside's needing to actually have perl installed on the server. This is also a VERY favorable way to do things, as I could have ONE server serving the entire friggen world. Of course, I'd have 2 providing backup capabilities that would be transparent to Jabber itself (Shared drives, dual cards that can takeover eachother's IP addresses, all of your run of the mill 99.9 % availability things), but that's another storyall together.. What DO people think of this? I feel that if we move jabber forward, only specifying it as a way for people to IM eachother, we'd be doing a great diservice to what we COULD do with this.. Think about it.. Programs based on Jabber would not need to deal with IP and proprietary protocols. This is what XML can REALLY do.. Not just stinkin static pages with a little data in it, but pure XML transactions.. Am I just dreaming here? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 13:19:10 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31436 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:19:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA31433 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:19:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:19:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Updated docs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org http://jabber.org/developers/docs/ I'm starting to flesh these out a bit. I haven't had time to check spelling, grammer, errors, anything, so beware, I'm just trying to get _something_ out there to help a bit. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 13:20:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31464 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:20:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from cce.nextreme.com (cce@CCE3.RESNET.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.175.66]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31461 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:20:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by cce.nextreme.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA23021 for jdev@jabber.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:20:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "c. chris erway" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:10:40 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.14] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99041613203100.22990@cce.nextreme.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org hi. yesterday i found the jabber.org site and i've been excited about the whole idea since then. i think i'd like to help out with a lot of stuff -- i'm a perl junkie, however. i saw the perl code included in the developer's distro and i'd like to contribute some. i've only had an hour or so to read the docs, but in thinking about the architecture i've had a few questions: a] it seems like a user can't switch between jabber servers. i wasn't sure how that would work -- if a user's favorite jabber server was down, would he be able to switch to a different one? if all his info/config/etc is stored on that server, it would be hard to get that info to a different server if the one he usually uses is down. or maybe you have been talking about that on this list? b] can modules / transports be written in perl? i'd love to help out, and perl seems like a great language for writing socket transports, etc. there are a ton of perl modules that do everything -- pgp, xml parsing, etc. c] if you want to use a, say, jabber--> AIM transport, would that be dependent on your jabber server having that transport? or, if it wasn't on your server, could the message be forwarded to a different server that had that transport installed? d] uin's / id's / searching -- this might seem too simplistic, but, basically, how's the "search for a user" work? the jabber distribution model seems to imply that no one server can know where every other jabber server is -- thus would there have to be a central jabber "directory server" that every jabber server would have to have a special module to connect to? that's all i can think of right now. i'm really interested in this project -- sorry if you've already heard these questions over and over again from new entrants (put up a FAQ for new developers!). chris -- .g$$g, c. chris erway .g$$g, cce3@cornell.edu $$$$$$ cornell university $$$$$$ class of 2002, a&s (undeclared) `S$$S' protium web design co. `S$$S' http://www.protium.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 13:32:59 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31662 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:32:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from gulf.csc.UVic.CA (gulf.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.200]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31656 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:32:57 -0500 From: qbradley@csc.UVic.CA Received: from thetis.csc.UVic.CA (thetis.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.204]) by gulf.csc.UVic.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16776 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by thetis.csc.UVic.CA (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA21652; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:32:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:32:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: qbradley@thetis To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions In-Reply-To: <99041613203100.22990@cce.nextreme.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, c. chris erway wrote: [...snip...] > b] can modules / transports be written in perl? i'd love to help out, and perl > seems like a great language for writing socket transports, etc. there are a > ton of perl modules that do everything -- pgp, xml parsing, etc. They can be written in anything as long as they can read and write XML over a socket. > d] uin's / id's / searching -- this might seem too simplistic, but, basically, > how's the "search for a user" work? the jabber distribution model seems to > imply that no one server can know where every other jabber server is -- thus > would there have to be a central jabber "directory server" that every jabber > server would have to have a special module to connect to? It would not be trivial to make a "search for user" option but there are a few ways you could go about it. One approach would be to have a voluntary directory where people could enter their jabber adresses and names. This is an approach I would favor. Another possibility would be to extend the servers to perhaps respond to a query from a user with a list of users. This has lots of problems, first being that you would need a standard way of addressing servers and the second being that many users would not want to be listed in such ways. Furthermore, you would still need a list of servers which probably would not be all that accurate. I think one or many voluntary databases where people can enter their names and make queries is the best approach. Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 14:08:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32003 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:08:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32000 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:08:45 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA16310 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA08919 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA24625 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA24615 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:27:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be881d$af8c7700$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. > > I've got a silly question.. > The most important kind! (seriously, many don't ask silly questions > because they think they are just missing something but are really > something everyone is wondering :) The way I look at it, the more silly questions I ask, the more IQ points I gain, and hence, the more others lose.. That's my plan for world domination.. Unfortionatly, I think good old Mr. Gates beat me to it.. ;-P > Short answer: if it _wasn't_ encapsulated in CDATA secions, that means > that (by definition) it would all have to be parsed into memory then > recreated into strings, when the original and final are identical. For a > busy JabberBox I wouldn't consider this a simple task :) Alrighty, that works.. Now, what happens with an equally loaded transport communicating with thousands of clients? This is a very realistic number in the case of a larger ISP that could decide to distribute Jabber to their customers? More on the above thought later.. I've had many thoughts on this very subject, and the drection Jabber COULD go if we market it right in the future.. > Long answer: JabberBox acts as an independant data "router" that just > transfers those CDATA chunks as strings reading/writing to different > sockets and understanding addressing... when an internet router moves > packets around, it just looks at the headers and sends the data chunks on, > this is a similiar scheme. The only safe way to do this in XML is to use > the special sections as the containers for the data > chunks. Ok, that works.. I was just curiouse.. This DOES make the most logical sense.. Now, here's another silly question.. I've found that expat spits out the the CDATA segment to the (Char handler I think?). Is there a way to tell expat to send CDATA segments to another function beside's the Char or Default? > Look at this as a feature, being that JabberBox can be used in a more > general purpose fashion... because of this speration of routing and data, > you can connect as a transport and send another transport ANY strings you > want, it doesn't have to be XML, or leagl XML, so long as the sender and > recipient understand it. Yep.. While I personally think we need to stay AWAY from this happening, it's goodto leave it open in case someone else decides NOT to use XML for some reason. (Hrm.. A Transport that send things like SMTP commands.. Oh man, my mind just went wild again..) -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 14:24:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32084 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:24:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA32081 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:24:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:24:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Additional Uses of Jabber.. In-Reply-To: <000201be8828$858c8200$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Ok, I like this message so much that I highlighted it on the dev news area at http://jabber.org/developers/ > Ok, I'll try to explain what I was talking about earlier with the > capabilities of the Jabber System. > > I was thinking the other day.. "Ya know, it'd be great if I used Jabber as > a way to communicate between servers, send error messages, etc..". And it > his me.. I can.. Here are some examples of what I'm thinking of.. > > On certain failures of parts of a server, I'd like it to be able to page > out a message. I'd also like it to me able to transfer files between > servers, such as reports, etc.. Perhaps even send out a list of 'new files' > that need to be changed.. Currently, I need to manually place these files > on some 80+ servers worldwide. > > Instead of building on all of these, I could simply 'Jabber Enable' these > applications, and they could comminicate via messages with each other. Once > things like Server Side storage of messages happen, I wouldn't have to worry > myself about delivery of the messages, as Jabber would take care of it FOR > me.. Yes! Wonderful! That's one of the beauties of the Jabber architecture, it's very neutral in how things happen, but extensible in how it can be used. > Using Jabber would mean I wouldn't have to include all of the different > code required, etc, to each program, and I could easily 'Jabberify' any > application, and 'Poof', it has access to everything I've done before.. Neato, huh? I really can't wait to get the foundation working enough here that I can start to 'Jabberify' most of what I do. Once something plugs into Jabber at some node(either as a client or as a transport, or even a module) it's functionaly becomes enrichened with everything else out there. If you're familiar with CORBA and the like, it's a similiar concept but simplified, XML based, and a little more specific. > I'm not really DOING this right now, as Jabber really has to prove it can > work on a wider scale then just testing right now before I could even come > CLOSE to suggesting it to my boss. What I AM doing is activly looking at > transports that I can make that would help serve this purpose. The two that > I actually have worked on are file transfer abilities, and a pager > transport. Both are in perl, as I simply LOVE perl, and it is very cross > platform with no intervention required beside's needing to actually have > perl installed on the server. > > This is also a VERY favorable way to do things, as I could have ONE server > serving the entire friggen world. Of course, I'd have 2 providing backup > capabilities that would be transparent to Jabber itself (Shared drives, dual > cards that can takeover eachother's IP addresses, all of your run of the > mill 99.9 % availability things), but that's another storyall together.. > > What DO people think of this? I feel that if we move jabber forward, only > specifying it as a way for people to IM eachother, we'd be doing a great > diservice to what we COULD do with this.. Think about it.. Programs based > on Jabber would not need to deal with IP and proprietary protocols. This is > what XML can REALLY do.. Not just stinkin static pages with a little data > in it, but pure XML transactions.. At the foundation of Jabber, it's simply a neutral streaming XML server, which is made up of the JabberBox and the transports. Then ontop of that is the structured XML instant messaging protocol as the data being streamed around. > Am I just dreaming here? Yes, so am I, dreaming of LOTS of wacked out things that I want to do with Jabber! Back to coding now :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 14:43:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32298 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:43:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA32295 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:43:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:43:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions In-Reply-To: <99041613203100.22990@cce.nextreme.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > hi. yesterday i found the jabber.org site and i've been excited about the > whole idea since then. i think i'd like to help out with a lot of stuff -- i'm > a perl junkie, however. i saw the perl code included in the developer's distro > and i'd like to contribute some. Wonderful! Perl can be a big boon to Jabber, and I just haven't had the time to really work on it yet... although I know Thomas Charron has done some. > i've only had an hour or so to read the docs, but in thinking about the > architecture i've had a few questions: > > a] it seems like a user can't switch between jabber servers. i wasn't sure how > that would work -- if a user's favorite jabber server was down, would he be > able to switch to a different one? if all his info/config/etc is stored on > that server, it would be hard to get that info to a different server if the one > he usually uses is down. or maybe you have been talking about that on this > list? It hasn't been talked about much yet, but at this point a user is really tied to their server, similiar to how your email client is tied to your email server. On the same note, providing forwarding will definately be added to one of the modules so that messages can be forwarded to your new location like in email. The other thing I've been mulling around, is that any of the common settings for your user account(name/password/security/preferences/etc) could be expressed in a common XML structure, and could be saved by the user or automatically sent from the old server to the new server, but that is a discussion that will have to wait till we have something to really test it with. > b] can modules / transports be written in perl? i'd love to help out, and perl > seems like a great language for writing socket transports, etc. there are a > ton of perl modules that do everything -- pgp, xml parsing, etc. Absolutely, 100%, please yes! The whole thing can be written in perl :) My take: Modules: A mod_perl needs to be written to do this, similiar to Apache Clients: A perl module, maybe Net::Jabber could be written to make this insanely easy, use it and then any perl script would be Jabberized Transports: Another perl module, maybe Net::JabberTransport would provide the easy framework for building transports in perl > c] if you want to use a, say, jabber--> AIM transport, would that be dependent > on your jabber server having that transport? or, if it wasn't on your server, > could the message be forwarded to a different server that had that transport > installed? That's a configuration issue. If you install a transport locally, you can configure it to accept data from only local transports or from anywhere on the net. So yes, you can use someone elses AIM transport if they allow it, *g*. > d] uin's / id's / searching -- this might seem too simplistic, but, basically, > how's the "search for a user" work? the jabber distribution model seems to > imply that no one server can know where every other jabber server is -- thus > would there have to be a central jabber "directory server" that every jabber > server would have to have a special module to connect to? Couple of ideas here... I think I'll reply to the next message(since I'm reading ahead ;) and touch on this topic... > that's all i can think of right now. i'm really interested in this project -- > sorry if you've already heard these questions over and over again from new > entrants (put up a FAQ for new developers!). An intro FAQ is an excellent idea, I'll whip one up soon here! Any/all help is greatly appreciated! There's a ton of power behind this sucker, so the sooner we make it to the general market, the sooner it's waves will be heard worldwide! Fun! > .g$$g, c. chris erway .g$$g, cce3@cornell.edu > $$$$$$ cornell university $$$$$$ class of 2002, a&s (undeclared) > `S$$S' protium web design co. `S$$S' http://www.protium.com Way cool sig, btw... Thanks! Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 14:50:52 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32369 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:50:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA32366 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:50:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > > d] uin's / id's / searching -- this might seem too simplistic, but, basically, > > how's the "search for a user" work? the jabber distribution model seems to > > imply that no one server can know where every other jabber server is -- thus > > would there have to be a central jabber "directory server" that every jabber > > server would have to have a special module to connect to? > > It would not be trivial to make a "search for user" option but there are a > few ways you could go about it. One approach would be to have a voluntary > directory where people could enter their jabber adresses and names. This > is an approach I would favor. Another possibility would be to extend the > servers to perhaps respond to a query from a user with a list of users. > This has lots of problems, first being that you would need a standard way > of addressing servers and the second being that many users would not want > to be listed in such ways. Furthermore, you would still need a list of > servers which probably would not be all that accurate. I think one or > many voluntary databases where people can enter their names and make > queries is the best approach. I really like the voluntary approach also... probably something @jabber.org would be a good plan. Here is another idea that might just work: Reaper. This is based on the proposal(and one of the reasons for querying). Basically, a client doing a search would send a search query to their server. Their server would then query all the modules to see if that is a local user. Then, failing that, the server could forward the query on to a master-query server, the Reaper. The Reaper would routinely connect to any known(registered) public servers and query them for "public" users, basically users that opt-in for this service. It would collect them and use that as a search base for the master queries. Again, this needs real-world implementation and testing... Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 15:06:16 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32547 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:06:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from ins8.netins.net (ins8.netins.net [167.142.225.8]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA32544 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:06:13 -0500 Received: from worf.netins.net (jeremie@worf.netins.net [167.142.225.4]) by ins8.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21300 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:06:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie Miller To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. In-Reply-To: <000001be881d$af8c7700$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Alrighty, that works.. Now, what happens with an equally loaded transport > communicating with thousands of clients? This is a very realistic number in > the case of a larger ISP that could decide to distribute Jabber to their > customers? Well, the current codebase might have some serious issues, but my focus is making it functional and work up to at least levels of hundreds of users. >From there, assuming you have highly optimized code for this high-traffic situation, you do the same as any big ISP would do... how do they handle thousands of simultaneous NNTP connections, or POP readers... how does AOL handle the AIM connections... etc... BIG ass servers :) > More on the above thought later.. I've had many thoughts on this very > subject, and the drection Jabber COULD go if we market it right in the > future.. If you're hinting at the possibility of it's usage simply exploding, IMHO that's a very real possibility based on the level of functionality we're aiming at providing. > Ok, that works.. I was just curiouse.. This DOES make the most logical > sense.. Now, here's another silly question.. I've found that expat spits > out the the CDATA segment to the (Char handler I think?). Is there a way to > tell expat to send CDATA segments to another function beside's the Char or > Default? I haven't looked, since the normal character handler works for me. > Yep.. While I personally think we need to stay AWAY from this happening, > it's goodto leave it open in case someone else decides NOT to use XML for > some reason. (Hrm.. A Transport that send things like SMTP commands.. Oh > man, my mind just went wild again..) It's mostly so that other forms of XML communication, not just Jabber XML, can be sent via this. It's just an opening for future unforseen directions and growth ;-) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 15:26:12 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32671 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:26:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA32668 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:26:09 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA19405 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA18808 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA14812 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id PAA14800 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:24:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:11:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be883c$ed1f0140$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions > I really like the voluntary approach also... probably something > @jabber.org would be a good plan. > Here is another idea that might just work: Reaper. This is based on the > proposal(and one of the reasons for querying). Basically, a > client doing a search would send a search query to their server. Their > server would then query all the modules to see if that is a local user. > Then, failing that, the server could forward the query on to a > master-query server, the Reaper. The Reaper would routinely connect to > any known(registered) public servers and query them for "public" users, > basically users that opt-in for this service. It would collect them and > use that as a search base for the master queries. Both could be one and the same, really.. Allow the user to register itself to the reaper, hence being directly added to the index. Otherwise, they will eventually be in the index as the Reaper gathers user data. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 15:31:11 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32714 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:31:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA32711 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:31:06 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA21013 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA20196 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA15507 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id PAA15489 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:27:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Additional Uses of Jabber.. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:14:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be883d$53d1e600$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 3:24 PM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Additional Uses of Jabber.. > Ok, I like this message so much that I highlighted it on the dev news area > at http://jabber.org/developers/ HeHe, did you notice that the 'Prev by Date' link is labeled 'Tom's a moron', about that correction I sent out after I noticed it.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 16:38:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00419 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:38:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00416 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:38:44 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA07473 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA06337 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA27438 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id OAA27433 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:09:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:56:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be8832$843bb380$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <99041613203100.22990@cce.nextreme.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > c. chris erway > Subject: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions > hi. yesterday i found the jabber.org site and i've been excited about the > whole idea since then. i think i'd like to help out with a lot > of stuff -- i'm > a perl junkie, however. i saw the perl code included in the > developer's distro > and i'd like to contribute some. Welcome! Personally, I'm about ready to send Jer a copy of the Perl transport I've been workingon that does a better job of showing using XML::Parser in an example.. > i've only had an hour or so to read the docs, but in thinking about the > architecture i've had a few questions: Well, bear in mind that the docs are not all that great (No offence, guys). Actually, I wouldn't say they're not that great, but merely need to be expanded alot more, at least on the development side.. ;-P > a] it seems like a user can't switch between jabber servers. i > wasn't sure how > that would work -- if a user's favorite jabber server was down, > would he be > able to switch to a different one? if all his info/config/etc is > stored on > that server, it would be hard to get that info to a different > server if the one > he usually uses is down. or maybe you have been talking about > that on this > list? I was thinking of this a while back myself.. I was thinking that perhaps eventually we'd be able to have a 'trusted host' for hosts that would allow several hosts transports could validate for each other. This would be nice, but we actually have to get validating done first.. ;-P > b] can modules / transports be written in perl? i'd love to help > out, and perl > seems like a great language for writing socket transports, etc. > there are a > ton of perl modules that do everything -- pgp, xml parsing, etc. Yes.. I can send you a copy of the ugly transport I have right now, but please, PWEASE don't hold the uglyness against me.. ;-P > c] if you want to use a, say, jabber--> AIM transport, would that > be dependent > on your jabber server having that transport? or, if it wasn't on > your server, > could the message be forwarded to a different server that had > that transport > installed? Not, becouse the transport would register the AOL ID to a jabber ID, so any jabber client could connect to any AOL transport. The transport does all the work. I'm guessing we may want to allow a transport to ONLY accept certain hosts, but that's another flavor banana.. > d] uin's / id's / searching -- this might seem too simplistic, > but, basically, > how's the "search for a user" work? the jabber distribution > model seems to > imply that no one server can know where every other jabber server > is -- thus > would there have to be a central jabber "directory server" that > every jabber > server would have to have a special module to connect to? I have't the foggiest. A transport COULD be used for this, and users could 'register' themselves with the transport, and allow users to search the transports database. Actually, you could allow registeration with 'groups', so you could actually search for 'show me a list of users in New Hampshire that are members of the 'Gardening' group'. > that's all i can think of right now. i'm really interested in > this project -- > sorry if you've already heard these questions over and over again from new > entrants (put up a FAQ for new developers!). Heck, we still have to put up decent DOCS for new developers.. ;-P Actually, I can make a FAQ really easy.. Jabber FAQ: Q: A: Join the mailing list.. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 16 21:42:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01425 for jdev-list; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:42:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from cce.nextreme.com (cce@CCE3.RESNET.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.175.66]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01422 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:42:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by cce.nextreme.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id VAA27119 for jdev@jabber.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:42:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "c. chris erway" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:24:26 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.14] Content-Type: text/plain References: <000001be8832$843bb380$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99041621423000.26771@cce.nextreme.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, you wrote: > > Yes.. I can send you a copy of the ugly transport I have right now, but >please, PWEASE don't hold the uglyness against me.. ;-P that would be cool. send it over! have you seen Net::ICQ, by the way? it's ... uhh ... neat. heh. ttyl ... got a bunch of work to do. chris -- .g$$g, c. chris erway .g$$g, cce3@cornell.edu $$$$$$ cornell university $$$$$$ class of 2002, a&s (undeclared) `S$$S' protium web design co. `S$$S' http://www.protium.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 17 03:00:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02314 for jdev-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:00:33 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-38.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.167]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02311 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:00:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12828 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:01:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:01:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] STATUS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Here is a quick status update, I'll try to make these a regular thing to keep everyone up to date. ==> DR0.6 (soon) Outstanding issues before release: -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... -> ./configure; make; make install for the works -> mod_basic working? -> Win32 client? -> Testing, testing, testing! ==> DR0.7 (May) -> Full Manpages and Docs -> Client Lib spec/base -> Sample transport structure/code -> mod_mysql? -> Querying -> Perl modules(structure)? ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) -> Threading? -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports -> Full CLI architecture . . . From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 17 06:44:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02995 for jdev-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:44:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02992 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:44:19 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id OAA26258 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:06:22 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA25794; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:38:34 +0300 Message-ID: <37186680.8C14E0DB@iname.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:46:24 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Questions...Questions... Questions... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org 1) For deleting a group, only enough or first we should delete all the users in the group? 2) Then, will the server send messages to user or will think that the user is offline, and store messages? ;) >> 2) When a client sends >> >> I'm offline >> >> >> then _MUST_ it close connection or can it >> stay and be in a mode like ICQ's privacy (other >> users won't know he/she's online)? >> That would be cool... > >Absolutely! The server doesn't care and will not disconnect the client, >it can stay connected and be invisible, definitely. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 17 07:42:24 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03265 for jdev-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:42:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA03262 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:42:20 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA27356 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:04:24 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25814; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:36:38 +0300 Message-ID: <37187418.6B952418@iname.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:44:24 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] zABBER complete... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org zABBER is fully complete... Real connections coming soon... (this evening ;) ) From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 17 16:53:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04789 for jdev-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:53:48 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-38.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.167]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04786 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:53:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13368 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:55:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:55:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Questions...Questions... Questions... In-Reply-To: <37186680.8C14E0DB@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > 1) For deleting a group, only > enough or first we should delete all the users in the group? Just deleting the group would be adequate. > 2) Then, will the server send messages to user or will think that > the user is offline, and store messages? ;) The server is aware of all of the connections, and will deliver it to your connection(s) based on the highest known priority, so if you go offline with a high priority or don't change your priority, it will still deliver to you. Of course, you also don't need to ever send your status, but you can still send/recieve messages. Some of this lower-level logic might not be quite right in the current codebase, it needs some further testing... Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sat Apr 17 17:45:01 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04992 for jdev-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:45:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mw2.texas.net (mw2.texas.net [206.127.30.12]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04987 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:44:58 -0500 Received: from tcnet01-04.houston.texas.net (tcnet01-04.houston.texas.net [209.99.28.4]) by mw2.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id QAA14303 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:44:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:44:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Eliot Landrum X-Sender: eliot@montague To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] documentation Message-ID: Organization: http://lonestar.texas.net/~landrum/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey!! I have never worked in a project like this before, but I've kept up a lot with the discussion. I'm not a programmer, but I sure would like to help with the documentation - I *DO* know how to write. :) So... Jeremy, if you need someone to head up the documentation department, someone to play with the web site, make README's or what have you (hey, I can mop floors too!) lemme know... Oh, and in my Running Linux book, they cover how to make manpages, so maybe I can play with that too (I'm sure a lot of you devel guys know how to do that though..). So.. here I am! ;) Eliot Landrum elandrum@bigfoot.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 18 20:27:04 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09580 for jdev-list; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:27:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09577 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:27:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id UAA12991 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:26:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:26:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] c / c++? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use of C++ kosher at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads and loads of stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 00:21:04 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10265 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:21:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10262 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:21:01 -0500 Received: from troz (1Cust178.tnt6.minneapolis.mn.da.uu.net [63.11.58.178]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18409 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004101be8ae6$23577d40$cd3e0b3f@troz> From: "Michael T. Nygard" To: Subject: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:27:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE8ABC.394BB460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE8ABC.394BB460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, here's a target. Open season! Client to server only. This DTD is sufficient to validate the = "client2server.txt" file from jabber.org. Particular issues: Is "nick" required for a login packet, or optional? Which, if any, fields in a message packet are required? Right now, this = shows only "to" and "say" as required. Notice how many elements have #PCDATA for content and no attributes. = This usually indicates that the DTD cannot capture complete knowledge = about the data. (Typically resulting in extra work for the XML = application.) For instance, my instinct tells me that there are only = certain allowed values for "icon" tags. This might better be captured = as=20 This would require the icon type to be one of those in the list. = (Priorities might be another good example of this.) Is a "say" required for a status packet? (Currently shows as required.) Can a roster packet include multiple "get" elements? Can they be mixed = with multiple "del" and "add" elements? jabber.dtd ----------Cut here----------- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE8ABC.394BB460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, here's a target.  Open = season!
 
Client to server only.  This DTD is sufficient = to=20 validate the "client2server.txt" file from jabber.org.
 
Particular issues:
Is "nick" required for a login packet, or=20 optional?
 
Which, if any, fields in a message packet are = required? =20 Right now, this shows only "to" and "say" as required.
 
Notice how many elements have #PCDATA for content = and no=20 attributes.  This usually indicates that the DTD cannot capture = complete=20 knowledge about the data.  (Typically resulting in extra work for = the XML=20 application.)  For instance, my instinct tells me that there are = only=20 certain allowed values for "icon" tags.  This might better be = captured as=20
 
<!ENTITY %iconTypes=20 "(online|away|happy|sad|hungry)">
<!ELEMENT icon EMPTY>
<!ATTLIST icon
  type  %iconTypes  = #REQUIRED
>
 
This would require the icon type to be one of those = in the=20 list.  (Priorities might be another good example of = this.)
 
Is a "say" required for a status packet?  = (Currently=20 shows as required.)
 
Can a roster packet include multiple "get" = elements?  Can=20 they be mixed with multiple "del" and "add" elements?
 
jabber.dtd
----------Cut here-----------
<?xml version=3D"1.0"=20 encoding=3D"UTF-8"?>
 
<!ENTITY % knownProtocolVersions=20 "19990324">
<!ENTITY % currentProtocolVersion=20 "19990324">
 
<!ELEMENT jabber=20 (login|message|status|roster)*>
<!ATTLIST jabber
  = version=20 CDATA #REQUIRED
  protocol (%knownProtocolVersions;)=20 "%currentProtocolVersion;"
>
 
<!ELEMENT login (user, pass, = (nick)?)>
<!ATTLIST=20 login >
 
<!ELEMENT user (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST user = >
 
<!ELEMENT pass (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST pass = >
 
<!ELEMENT nick (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST nick = >
 
<!ELEMENT message ((to)+, (thread)?, (priority)?, = (subject)?, say)>
<!ATTLIST message >
 
<!ELEMENT to (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = to
 =20 name CDATA  #IMPLIED
>
 
<!ELEMENT thread (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = thread=20 >
 
<!ELEMENT priority (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = priority=20 >
 
<!ELEMENT subject (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = subject=20 >
 
<!ELEMENT say (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = say
 =20 type CDATA  #IMPLIED
>
 
<!ELEMENT status (say, (priority)?,=20 (icon)?)>
<!ATTLIST status >
 
<!ELEMENT icon (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST icon = >
 
<!ELEMENT roster ((add)*, (del)*,=20 (get)*)>
<!ATTLIST roster >
 
<!ELEMENT add (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = add
 =20 group CDATA #REQUIRED
>
 
<!ELEMENT del (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = del
 =20 group CDATA #REQUIRED
>
 
<!ELEMENT get (#PCDATA)>
<!ATTLIST = get
 =20 group CDATA #REQUIRED
>
 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE8ABC.394BB460-- From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 00:49:13 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10483 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:49:13 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-19.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.148]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10480 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:49:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17005 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:51:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:51:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hey!! I have never worked in a project like this before, but I've kept up > a lot with the discussion. I'm not a programmer, but I sure would like to > help with the documentation - I *DO* know how to write. :) Awesome Awesome AWESOME! This is a VERY cool thing indeed! > So... Jeremy, > if you need someone to head up the documentation department, someone to > play with the web site, make README's or what have you (hey, I can mop > floors too!) lemme know... Absolutely!!! YES! UberGreat! > Oh, and in my Running Linux book, they cover > how to make manpages, so maybe I can play with that too (I'm sure a lot of > you devel guys know how to do that though..). So.. here I am! ;) I don't know the first thing about man pages, and I fear it has something to do with that scary tex/latex thing I see here and there... Ok, this is my take on the docs thing: Needs(in no particular order): General: overview/structure/terminology Developer: FAQ/intro Expert: modules/transports/clients Manuals: server/client operation guides Code: structures/style-guide/overview/cvs Instant Messaging: history/links/news ...anyone feel free to make additions Writing this stuff requires a fairly deep understanding of Jabber and how it works, so it might take a bit of a learning curve to ramp up... I am always here to help with the actual meat/content, but I really blow at spelling/grammer, as many have probably noticed. First things first, scan over what's up on the web site and start getting a feel for Jabber... if you think you'll have tons of questions and stuff, feel free to email me personally and the email exchange can start to be built up into documentation, err, take a look at the list archives, there's lots of jucy tidbits littered in it :) I'll be moving many pieces of jabber.org into it's own CVS archive once there are other "editors" to make this a bit easier. Fun fun! Thanks a million, and I hope I didn't scare you away! Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 01:01:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10568 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:01:48 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-19.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.148]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10565 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:01:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17018 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:03:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:03:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use of C++ kosher > at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads and loads of > stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I > think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). I'd like to keep the distributed base source straight XP ANSI C, but since your stuff will live in mod_digsig, I'm sure we can add all the right conditional wrappers into the header files so that you can compile it with a C++ compiler and we'll just link the two together, right? I haven't done much C++ stuff so I don't really know how that might work. mod_digsig could be distributed similiar to how mod_php is for Apache, as a seperately compiled external app, and just the .o/.a files are copied into the jabber distro and then linked in. Would this work? Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 01:23:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10735 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:23:08 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-19.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.148]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10732 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:23:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17031 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:24:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:24:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD In-Reply-To: <004101be8ae6$23577d40$cd3e0b3f@troz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Particular issues: > Is "nick" required for a login packet, or optional? Optional, actually, they are all optional, you can send a login with just a nick and it will create an anonymous session if the server config allows it. > Which, if any, fields in a message packet are required? Right now, > this shows only "to" and "say" as required. To is required, but there's nothing stopping a client from sending a message with just a to and an ext, so say wouldn't really be required either... > Notice how many elements have #PCDATA for content and no attributes. > This usually indicates that the DTD cannot capture complete knowledge > about the data. (Typically resulting in extra work for the XML > application.) For instance, my instinct tells me that there are only > certain allowed values for "icon" tags. This might better be captured > as > > > > type %iconTypes #REQUIRED > > I'd like to leave icons open to user definition, but have a base set of standard ones. So that in the future you might be able to do an golly gee and have a custom icon appear in clients that support it, would be great for transports that want to supply the custom icons from their heritage(ICQ for instance). > This would require the icon type to be one of those in the list. > (Priorities might be another good example of this.) Priority will always be an integer, it's what the server uses to guage which connected session for a user will be the default recipient for incoming messages. (highest wins) > Is a "say" required for a status packet? (Currently shows as required.) Probably not, so that a client could connect and set their priority to the highest so that it's the default, but not alert anyone to their presence. > Can a roster packet include multiple "get" elements? Can they be > mixed with multiple "del" and "add" elements? Sure, why not :) It all gets processed the same way on the server. > jabber.dtd > ----------Cut here----------- > > ...... Looks very nice! Thanks, I've been wanting something like that for some time but I just can't figure out the strange syntax and can't find the spec defining it(EBNF or something ;-) As far as I understand it though, with reguard to XML and DTDs, they are really most useful in special applications requiring "pure" strict data and in XML editors providing the user rules when composing a document, right? With how the server is designed, they wouldn't work at all by defualt, since the server is as future-proof as I can make it. It allows _anything_ for the XML, and only extracts what it needs from the parsed XML, ignoring the rest. This way the protocol can grow and adapt and not disturb the old servers installed, they might just miss out on a few newer features. Adding a strict DTD check into the server would pretty much put an end to that, but it might be very useful for a client. Actually, it might be an excellent option for testing minimal adherence to the spec from clients and servers, or as a debugging option on the server for the paranoid :) I really do like having the DTD though, it provides a clear and automated understanding of the protocol, it's the definition of the protocol. Thanks! Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 01:39:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10783 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:39:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10780 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:39:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06271 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:42:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. Nick On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use of C++ kosher > > at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads and loads of > > stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I > > think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). > > I'd like to keep the distributed base source straight XP ANSI C, but since > your stuff will live in mod_digsig, I'm sure we can add all the right > conditional wrappers into the header files so that you can compile it with > a C++ compiler and we'll just link the two together, right? I haven't > done much C++ stuff so I don't really know how that might work. > > mod_digsig could be distributed similiar to how mod_php is for Apache, as > a seperately compiled external app, and just the .o/.a files are copied > into the jabber distro and then linked in. Would this work? > > Jer > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 02:06:57 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11041 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:06:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11038 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:06:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id CAA17113 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:06:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Nicholas M. Kirsch wrote: > > Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is > because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo > (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. > Yes, this is what I fear. I am leaning towards doing whatever it takes to keep it pure ANSI C...there are just too many headaches with mixing the two. > Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C > cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. > Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. > Sure thing. Full crypto libraries are the nicest, but the most essential thing I need is a solid large integer (and associated functions for working in Z(n)) package. I've looked into freelip (derived from Lenstra's RSA129 effort)...but I like the fact that some of these other ones have ASM code for a few different architectures at the root for speed. I have a superb book on elliptic curve crypto, for example, that rolls its own bigints...but admits that they implementation is totally for readability/understandability vs. efficiency...I'd like a good compromise between the two. CJK From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 02:25:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11139 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:25:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from gulf.csc.UVic.CA (gulf.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.200]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11136 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:25:19 -0500 From: qbradley@csc.UVic.CA Received: from thetis.csc.UVic.CA (thetis.csc.UVic.CA [142.104.105.204]) by gulf.csc.UVic.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA13543 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by thetis.csc.UVic.CA (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA11668; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:25:14 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: qbradley@thetis To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Have you considered the GNU MP library? It is GPL, hence "free", and is supposed to be fast. It is C (with optional bonus assembly for many platforms) http://www.gnu.org/software/gmp/gmp.html "The speed of GNU MP is believed to be faster than any other similar library" Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Nicholas M. Kirsch wrote: > > > > > Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is > > because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo > > (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. > > > > Yes, this is what I fear. I am leaning towards doing whatever it takes to > keep it pure ANSI C...there are just too many headaches with mixing the > two. > > > Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C > > cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. > > Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. > > > > Sure thing. Full crypto libraries are the nicest, but the most essential > thing I need is a solid large integer (and associated functions for > working in Z(n)) package. I've looked into freelip (derived from > Lenstra's RSA129 effort)...but I like the fact that some of these other > ones have ASM code for a few different architectures at the root for > speed. I have a superb book on elliptic curve crypto, for example, that > rolls its own bigints...but admits that they implementation is totally for > readability/understandability vs. efficiency...I'd like a good compromise > between the two. > > CJK > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley qbradley@csc.uvic.ca From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 03:03:58 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11312 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:03:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11309 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:03:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id DAA17348 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:03:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:03:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Yeah, I was actually looking at the pages last night...it seems like a strong contender....I grabbed the PS docs so I can print them out later... The fact that it has asm optimized guts for several architectures is key, too....all of the literature I've seen on this mentions the importance of asm optimization of your core bigint routines, as they play such an integral part... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 qbradley@csc.UVic.CA wrote: > > Have you considered the GNU MP library? It is GPL, hence "free", and is > supposed to be fast. It is C (with optional bonus assembly for many > platforms) > > http://www.gnu.org/software/gmp/gmp.html > > "The speed of GNU MP is believed to be faster than any other similar > library" > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley > qbradley@csc.uvic.ca > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > > > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Nicholas M. Kirsch wrote: > > > > > > > > Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is > > > because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo > > > (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. > > > > > > > Yes, this is what I fear. I am leaning towards doing whatever it takes to > > keep it pure ANSI C...there are just too many headaches with mixing the > > two. > > > > > Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C > > > cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. > > > Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. > > > > > > > Sure thing. Full crypto libraries are the nicest, but the most essential > > thing I need is a solid large integer (and associated functions for > > working in Z(n)) package. I've looked into freelip (derived from > > Lenstra's RSA129 effort)...but I like the fact that some of these other > > ones have ASM code for a few different architectures at the root for > > speed. I have a superb book on elliptic curve crypto, for example, that > > rolls its own bigints...but admits that they implementation is totally for > > readability/understandability vs. efficiency...I'd like a good compromise > > between the two. > > > > CJK > > > > > > Quetzalcoatl Bradley > qbradley@csc.uvic.ca > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 10:36:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12605 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:36:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12602 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:36:12 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA20562 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA19160 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA28706 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id KAA28702 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:17:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000301be8a6f$603bfe60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: <99041621423000.26771@cce.nextreme.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org If/When the Net::ICQ module is actually doing more then logging in, it's make it a BREEZE to make a Jabber<->ICQ module in perl.. I'll be sending the source I've got today over the list for perl, but, as I said, it's ugly, and it does one and only one thing.. : Recieve a message that contains a To line, and a say line. Anything else is ignored.. : Check to see if the text is more then 255 chars.. If so, do the below twice, cutting up the message.. : Open up Mobilecomm's paging CGI script, and pass it the Pager ID and message to send -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > c. chris erway > Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:24 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions > > > On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, you wrote: > > > > Yes.. I can send you a copy of the ugly transport I have > right now, but > >please, PWEASE don't hold the uglyness against me.. ;-P > > that would be cool. send it over! > > have you seen Net::ICQ, by the way? it's ... uhh ... neat. > > heh. ttyl ... got a bunch of work to do. > > > chris > > -- > .g$$g, c. chris erway .g$$g, cce3@cornell.edu > $$$$$$ cornell university $$$$$$ class of 2002, a&s (undeclared) > `S$$S' protium web design co. `S$$S' http://www.protium.com > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 10:37:27 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12620 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:37:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12617 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:37:22 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAB21111 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA19960 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA28959 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id KAA28954 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:31:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] STATUS Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:19:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000401be8a6f$92bfd140$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > ==> DR0.6 (soon) > > Outstanding issues before release: > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > -> mod_basic working? > -> Win32 client? > -> Testing, testing, testing! Do we have a 'date' that we're shooting for? I can have a Win32 client working by that time, but I'd like to have some sort of shoot for date.. How's May 1st sound? That's about another 2 weeks.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:02 AM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] STATUS > > > Here is a quick status update, I'll try to make these a regular thing to > keep everyone up to date. > > > ==> DR0.6 (soon) > > Outstanding issues before release: > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > -> mod_basic working? > -> Win32 client? > -> Testing, testing, testing! > > > ==> DR0.7 (May) > > -> Full Manpages and Docs > -> Client Lib spec/base > -> Sample transport structure/code > -> mod_mysql? > -> Querying > -> Perl modules(structure)? > > > ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) > > -> Threading? > -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports > -> Full CLI architecture > > . > . > . > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 10:41:47 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12651 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:41:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12648 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:41:44 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA23132 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA21027 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA29440 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id KAA29431 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:34:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] c / c++? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:21:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be8a6f$ddd9e440$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org My vote would be for something that will at LEAST compile under g++. Anything that will compile under it will pretty much be able to compile under any other platform. It'd do the same for the WIn32 client, but I really don't have that sorta time, and I've never developed windows apps under anything BUT Visual C++/Basic, beside's perl scripts.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Corbett J. Klempay > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 8:27 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] c / c++? > > > Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use of C++ kosher > at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads and loads of > stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I > think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join > together to share their lack of > wealth." > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 10:42:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12667 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:42:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12663 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:42:11 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA24262 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA22639 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id KAA00133 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id KAA00129 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] c / c++? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:24:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be8a70$5410a5e0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I COULD be wrong, but I BELIEVE that you can link C++ to C by using directives stating to the C++ compiler to produce C type namespace instead.. What I had to do in order to call the C functions from C++ is to use extern "C" { #include "common.h" }, and I'd image that there is something simular.. Myself, I LOVE C++..\ -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Nicholas M. Kirsch > Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 1:42 AM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? > > > > Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is > because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo > (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. > > Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C > cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. > Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. > > Nick > > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > > > Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use > of C++ kosher > > > at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads > and loads of > > > stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I > > > think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). > > > > I'd like to keep the distributed base source straight XP ANSI > C, but since > > your stuff will live in mod_digsig, I'm sure we can add all the right > > conditional wrappers into the header files so that you can > compile it with > > a C++ compiler and we'll just link the two together, right? I haven't > > done much C++ stuff so I don't really know how that might work. > > > > mod_digsig could be distributed similiar to how mod_php is for > Apache, as > > a seperately compiled external app, and just the .o/.a files are copied > > into the jabber distro and then linked in. Would this work? > > > > Jer > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 19 15:10:03 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13734 for jdev-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:10:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13729 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:09:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11450 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:12:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] c / c++? In-Reply-To: <000601be8a70$5410a5e0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org True, that is for using C inside C++, not vice versa. The C++ compiler can handle linking the functions of both. What is talked about here is generating object files with a C++ compiler and seperately linking them with C source files. Nick On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > I COULD be wrong, but I BELIEVE that you can link C++ to C by using > directives stating to the C++ compiler to produce C type namespace instead.. > What I had to do in order to call the C functions from C++ is to use extern > "C" { #include "common.h" }, and I'd image that there is something simular.. > Myself, I LOVE C++..\ > > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > > Nicholas M. Kirsch > > Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 1:42 AM > > To: jdev@jabber.org > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] c / c++? > > > > > > > > Traditionally C compilers have trouble linking with C++ libraries. This is > > because C++ allows for function overloading (ie. having foo (void) & foo > > (int) ) and therefore mangles the symbol table. > > > > Not that there isn't a way around it, but have you looked into any ANSI C > > cryptography libraries.. I've played around with a couple that are good. > > Let me look them up and direct you to their sites. > > > > Nick > > > > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > > > > > Hey guys...are we sticking purely with ANSI C, or is the use > > of C++ kosher > > > > at all? (I'm wondering because the Crypto++ toolkit has loads > > and loads of > > > > stuff..but it's all C++...like heavy use of templates and all...like I > > > > think it might not even compile with g++ 2.7.2.x). > > > > > > I'd like to keep the distributed base source straight XP ANSI > > C, but since > > > your stuff will live in mod_digsig, I'm sure we can add all the right > > > conditional wrappers into the header files so that you can > > compile it with > > > a C++ compiler and we'll just link the two together, right? I haven't > > > done much C++ stuff so I don't really know how that might work. > > > > > > mod_digsig could be distributed similiar to how mod_php is for > > Apache, as > > > a seperately compiled external app, and just the .o/.a files are copied > > > into the jabber distro and then linked in. Would this work? > > > > > > Jer > > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 20 01:13:12 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA15966 for jdev-list; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:13:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA15963 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:13:09 -0500 Received: from troz (1Cust7.tnt5.minneapolis.mn.da.uu.net [63.11.57.7]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20761 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000c01be8bb6$972bee60$07390b3f@troz> From: "Michael T. Nygard" To: References: Subject: Re: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:19:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8B8C.AAC56CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8B8C.AAC56CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New version attached. Revised per comments. > Looks very nice! Thanks, I've been wanting something like that for some > time but I just can't figure out the strange syntax and can't find the > spec defining it(EBNF or something ;-) The DTD syntax is defined directly in the XML 1.0 spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-xml-19980210.html. Unfortunately, the spec mixes DTD parts with XML parts pretty thoroughly. I haven't seen a great reference for just the DTD syntax parts. > As far as I understand it though, with reguard to XML and DTDs, they are > really most useful in special applications requiring "pure" strict data > and in XML editors providing the user rules when composing a document, > right? This is true. > With how the server is designed, they wouldn't work at all by defualt, > since the server is as future-proof as I can make it. It allows > _anything_ for the XML, and only extracts what it needs from the parsed > XML, ignoring the rest. This way the protocol can grow and adapt and not > disturb the old servers installed, they might just miss out on a few newer > features. Adding a strict DTD check into the server would pretty much put > an end to that, but it might be very useful for a client. Actually, it > might be an excellent option for testing minimal adherence to the spec > from clients and servers, or as a debugging option on the server for the > paranoid :) Well, I agree with this to an extent. It is possible to create a DTD that is future-proof. It allows for future extension with parameter entities, conditional sections, internal subsets, and the like. Of course, just like reusable code vs. one-shot code, there is an order of magnitude more complexity to doing this. Since validation won't be part of processing each packet, and this DTD is more for documentation purposes, the added complexity is probably not worth it. > I really do like having the DTD though, it provides a clear and automated > understanding of the protocol, it's the definition of the protocol. That is my intent. > Thanks! You're welcome! Cheers, -Mike Nygard ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8B8C.AAC56CA0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="jabber.dtd" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jabber.dtd" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8B8C.AAC56CA0-- From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 20 11:55:45 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18519 for jdev-list; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:55:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18515 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:55:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:55:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] STATUS In-Reply-To: <000401be8a6f$92bfd140$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > > ==> DR0.6 (soon) > > > > Outstanding issues before release: > > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > > -> mod_basic working? > > -> Win32 client? > > -> Testing, testing, testing! > > Do we have a 'date' that we're shooting for? I can have a Win32 client > working by that time, but I'd like to have some sort of shoot for date.. > > How's May 1st sound? That's about another 2 weeks.. Sure... sounds great! May 1st it is. I'd like to have 0.7 out shortly after that, in May yet, then we can get to work on the real meat :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 20 12:33:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18858 for jdev-list; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:33:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18855 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:33:12 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA10894 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA10651 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA14071 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id MAA14066 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:31:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] OOhh,.. Mozilla.. Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:18:28 -0400 Message-ID: <002101be8b49$6c9aa460$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Check out this: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chat/ Mozilla is adding hooks into the browser to allow chat plugins! ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 20 12:50:13 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18952 for jdev-list; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:50:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18949 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:50:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:50:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD In-Reply-To: <000c01be8bb6$972bee60$07390b3f@troz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > New version attached. Revised per comments. Excellent... I just checked this into the distribution, as docs/protocol/jabber.dtd I'm wondering what you think about making this even a bit more generic, so that it inclusively covers all of the Jabber protocol pieces, the client and server, in one package. All it would require would be adding a few more attributes/tags in certian places, most of the important parts(messages/status) are the same. Creating a second DTD would be just as easy, just not sure which is more appropriate. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 20 14:52:55 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19513 for jdev-list; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:52:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19510 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:52:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:52:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] OOhh,.. Mozilla.. In-Reply-To: <002101be8b49$6c9aa460$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Check out this: > > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chat/ > > Mozilla is adding hooks into the browser to allow chat plugins! ;-P Yes, might be very handy :) I've been planning on developing a Jabber client for Mozilla for some time now, just haven't been able to start yet. It will probably be heavily integrated into the XUL structure. Most of the back-end work for XML and network is already done in Mozilla, so it might be a relatively easy project(in comparison to other Mozilla projects). I emailed the owner of the above project, we'll see where it goes from there. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 21 00:13:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21619 for jdev-list; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:13:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21615 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:13:40 -0500 Received: from troz (1Cust250.tnt8.minneapolis.mn.da.uu.net [63.11.61.250]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11088 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005801be8bae$4614ef20$fa3d0b3f@troz> From: "Michael T. Nygard" To: References: Subject: Re: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:20:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I definitely think one DTD to cover all of the protocol is good. I wanted to start small and expand to include the rest, once I had a better feel for the protocol. Of course, if someone else (Jeremie?) wants to fill in the rest, following the example set by the first part, that would be great too! -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremie To: Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [JDEV] First cut at a DTD > > New version attached. Revised per comments. > > Excellent... I just checked this into the distribution, as > docs/protocol/jabber.dtd > > I'm wondering what you think about making this even a bit more generic, so > that it inclusively covers all of the Jabber protocol pieces, the client > and server, in one package. All it would require would be adding a few > more attributes/tags in certian places, most of the important > parts(messages/status) are the same. Creating a second DTD would be > just as easy, just not sure which is more appropriate. > > Jer > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 22 12:03:03 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29157 for jdev-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:03:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29154 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:02:58 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA00209 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA28604 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA28704 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA28693 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:56:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:43:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000201be8cd6$e7373ec0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] my interest -- a few questions > Wonderful! Perl can be a big boon to Jabber, and I just haven't had the > time to really work on it yet... although I know Thomas Charron has done > some. Yep, done some.. UGLY as sin code, though.. If this week ever let's up, I'm going to rewrite it to contain a hash of functions that will call on the end tag and pass the text contained within the tag, something like: %FunctionHash = ({"message", \&IncomingMessage}, {"status", \&Status}); Then when a message comes in, upon the end of the function, it will do a &$FunctionHash{"message"}($TheText); (I just pulledthat out of my rear, ok, It may bewrong, I stillrefer to the perl man pagesat times..) > It hasn't been talked about much yet, but at this point a user is really > tied to their server, similiar to how your email client is tied to your > email server. On the same note, providing forwarding will definately be > added to one of the modules so that messages can be forwarded to your new > location like in email. > The other thing I've been mulling around, is that any of the common > settings for your user account(name/password/security/preferences/etc) > could be expressed in a common XML structure, and could be saved by the > user or automatically sent from the old server to the new server, but that > is a discussion that will have to wait till we have something to really > test it with. Good idea!! You could even store the password in crypt() form. And in order to GET the XML profile, the requesting server would need to provide a password in crypt() form.. If it matched, it'd send it.. This would make it so that no server could get a password list to try to crack, as you'd already need to KNOW the password to get it.. Perhaps even an option the have a different 'remote access' password? -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 22 12:33:59 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29358 for jdev-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:33:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29355 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:33:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:33:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] STATUS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org ==> DR0.6 (May 1) Outstanding issues before release: -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc I'm working on this. -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) Anyone want to try this? If we just get a basic shell for the man pages for this release, that would be a good start. -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... I'm also working on this, logging in and messages work, status will come for sure, not sure I'll get rosters working by the 1st. -> ./configure; make; make install for the works Nick? Can you help here? It appears to be broken from the root level right now. Also, are we going to default to a /usr/local/jabber install or /usr/local install? -> mod_basic working? mod_basic should offer offline messages and cross-session rosters if I get my way, and will save them to a spool folder somewhere. Its really only for testing, but almost usable. -> Win32 client? Thomas is working on this, yum! -> Testing, testing, testing! As always! ==> DR0.7 (May) -> Full Manpages and Docs -> Client Lib spec/base -> Sample transport structure/code -> mod_mysql? -> Querying -> Perl modules(structure)? ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) -> Threading? -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports -> Full CLI architecture . . . From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 22 14:32:29 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA30157 for jdev-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:32:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA30154 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:32:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00628 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:35:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:35:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] STATUS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Could you please send me transcripts of the errors you are receiving? I haven't had a problem, but then, I also have the pthreads library and other things which the configure requires. What are the feelings on that? It will be easy to make it either way, /local/jabber or just /local ... Let me know.. Been a bit busy lately, finishing school and a bunch of job interviews.. Hopefully when it all clears up I will have more time.. :) Nick On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > ==> DR0.6 (May 1) > > Outstanding issues before release: > > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > I'm working on this. > > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > Anyone want to try this? If we just get a basic shell for the man > pages for this release, that would be a good start. > > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > I'm also working on this, logging in and messages work, status > will come for sure, not sure I'll get rosters working by the 1st. > > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > Nick? Can you help here? It appears to be broken from the root > level right now. Also, are we going to default to a > /usr/local/jabber install or /usr/local install? > > -> mod_basic working? > mod_basic should offer offline messages and cross-session rosters > if I get my way, and will save them to a spool folder somewhere. > Its really only for testing, but almost usable. > > -> Win32 client? > Thomas is working on this, yum! > > -> Testing, testing, testing! > As always! > > > ==> DR0.7 (May) > > -> Full Manpages and Docs > -> Client Lib spec/base > -> Sample transport structure/code > -> mod_mysql? > -> Querying > -> Perl modules(structure)? > > > ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) > > -> Threading? > -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports > -> Full CLI architecture > > . > . > . > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 22 16:06:49 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA30638 for jdev-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:06:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA30635 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:06:43 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA26234 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA24991 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA25574 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id QAA25566 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:00:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] STATUS Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:47:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01be8cf8$f3a66920$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org At least on my side, it's aclocal doing configure.in, and belching becouse I don't have libtool installed. Aka: aclocal: configure.in: 10: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library I know, I know.. "Install Libtool, silly".. ;-P -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Nicholas M. Kirsch > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:36 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: Re: [JDEV] STATUS > > > > Could you please send me transcripts of the errors you are receiving? > > I haven't had a problem, but then, I also have the pthreads library and > other things which the configure requires. > > What are the feelings on that? It will be easy to make it either way, > /local/jabber or just /local ... Let me know.. > > Been a bit busy lately, finishing school and a bunch of job interviews.. > Hopefully when it all clears up I will have more time.. :) > > Nick > > > On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > > ==> DR0.6 (May 1) > > > > Outstanding issues before release: > > > > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > > I'm working on this. > > > > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > > Anyone want to try this? If we just get a basic shell for the man > > pages for this release, that would be a good start. > > > > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > > I'm also working on this, logging in and messages work, status > > will come for sure, not sure I'll get rosters working by the 1st. > > > > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > > Nick? Can you help here? It appears to be broken from the root > > level right now. Also, are we going to default to a > > /usr/local/jabber install or /usr/local install? > > > > -> mod_basic working? > > mod_basic should offer offline messages and cross-session rosters > > if I get my way, and will save them to a spool folder somewhere. > > Its really only for testing, but almost usable. > > > > -> Win32 client? > > Thomas is working on this, yum! > > > > -> Testing, testing, testing! > > As always! > > > > > > ==> DR0.7 (May) > > > > -> Full Manpages and Docs > > -> Client Lib spec/base > > -> Sample transport structure/code > > -> mod_mysql? > > -> Querying > > -> Perl modules(structure)? > > > > > > ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) > > > > -> Threading? > > -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports > > -> Full CLI architecture > > > > . > > . > > . > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 22 16:46:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA30886 for jdev-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:46:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA30881 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:46:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01442 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] STATUS In-Reply-To: <000c01be8cf8$f3a66920$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Actually, there is a difference between the makefiles for developers and the ones for distribution.. To really check it out, it is necessary to run make dist. Then the dependencies on having libtool, autoconf, & automake are all eliminated.. There is a minor problem with the CVS tree, but once it is corrected I will configure, and make dist on it and send it to this list, to see if everyone can compile it successfully. Nick On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > At least on my side, it's aclocal doing configure.in, and belching becouse > I don't have libtool installed. Aka: > > aclocal: configure.in: 10: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library > > I know, I know.. "Install Libtool, silly".. ;-P > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > > Nicholas M. Kirsch > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:36 PM > > To: jdev@jabber.org > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] STATUS > > > > > > > > Could you please send me transcripts of the errors you are receiving? > > > > I haven't had a problem, but then, I also have the pthreads library and > > other things which the configure requires. > > > > What are the feelings on that? It will be easy to make it either way, > > /local/jabber or just /local ... Let me know.. > > > > Been a bit busy lately, finishing school and a bunch of job interviews.. > > Hopefully when it all clears up I will have more time.. :) > > > > Nick > > > > > > On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > > > > ==> DR0.6 (May 1) > > > > > > Outstanding issues before release: > > > > > > -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc > > > I'm working on this. > > > > > > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > > > Anyone want to try this? If we just get a basic shell for the man > > > pages for this release, that would be a good start. > > > > > > -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... > > > I'm also working on this, logging in and messages work, status > > > will come for sure, not sure I'll get rosters working by the 1st. > > > > > > -> ./configure; make; make install for the works > > > Nick? Can you help here? It appears to be broken from the root > > > level right now. Also, are we going to default to a > > > /usr/local/jabber install or /usr/local install? > > > > > > -> mod_basic working? > > > mod_basic should offer offline messages and cross-session rosters > > > if I get my way, and will save them to a spool folder somewhere. > > > Its really only for testing, but almost usable. > > > > > > -> Win32 client? > > > Thomas is working on this, yum! > > > > > > -> Testing, testing, testing! > > > As always! > > > > > > > > > ==> DR0.7 (May) > > > > > > -> Full Manpages and Docs > > > -> Client Lib spec/base > > > -> Sample transport structure/code > > > -> mod_mysql? > > > -> Querying > > > -> Perl modules(structure)? > > > > > > > > > ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) > > > > > > -> Threading? > > > -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports > > > -> Full CLI architecture > > > > > > . > > > . > > > . > > > > > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 23 03:04:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00289 for jdev-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:04:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00286 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:04:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id DAA04824 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:04:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:04:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] server computation is inevitable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've been laying some initial code in mod_digsig...and it's becoming increasingly clear that some crypto computation will be needed on the server side in order to authenticate clients trying to log on securely. Basically: in the equation y = g^x mod p the server has: y, g, and p the client has: y, g, p, and x (x is the secret key) In order to verify that the client is who he says he is, all the server needs is x...he can plug it into the equation and if it checks out, then all is kosher. However, you don't want to be sending the client's _secret_ key in plaintext; that defeats the whole point of having a secure login in the first place...the system would be no more secure than ICQ (sending the secret x in plaintext is not functionally different than ICQ sending the login password in plaintext). So, some kind of public-key based challenge-response protocol will probably be instituted to convey the secret x without sending x in plaintext. This will require computation on the server side (so in other words, logging a user into the server isn't going to just be a check to see if (passwd == stored passwd)). I'm looking longest and hardest at challenge response based on digital signatures right now (totally avoiding straight up public key crypto itself...export controls...damn they are lame)...if anyone has a copy of the CRC Press _Handbook of Applied Cryptography_ (great book, btw), it's pages 404 and 405. In related news, it looks like GNU MP (GMP) is what I'm using for large integer support (and the associated operations). Also: if a protocol other than just "here's my name and password" (the standard, insecure login) is going to be needed to support secure logins, how does this fit (or not fit) into the current Jabber protocol? I'll be visiting a friend at Carnegie Mellon this weekend (leaving tomorrow), but should be checking my mail from there...feedback would be useful. Thanks guys! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 23 09:09:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01823 for jdev-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:09:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01820 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:09:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] server computation is inevitable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Also: if a protocol other than just "here's my name and password" (the > standard, insecure login) is going to be needed to support secure logins, > how does this fit (or not fit) into the current Jabber protocol? It depends on how much more you're going to need :) If it's something simple, you could overload the tag to contain multiple delimited fields, since it's just passed as plaintext to the module. If it's something drastically more complex, then we can look at extending the login packet(using like in other packets possibly) or maybe having a two phase login using a normal login packet and subsequent packets. Everything else looks great though! Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 23 11:18:40 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02887 for jdev-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:18:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mw2.texas.net (mw2.texas.net [206.127.30.12]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02884 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:18:38 -0500 Received: from montague (tcnet03-078.houston.texas.net [209.99.82.141]) by mw2.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id KAA20782 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:18:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:18:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Eliot Landrum X-Sender: eliot@montague To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] STATUS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: http://lonestar.texas.net/~landrum/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > -> Manpages? (someone please clue me in on how to do this) > Anyone want to try this? If we just get a basic shell for the man > pages for this release, that would be a good start. I'm on it. I'll have a shell sent to you within the day (it may be Saturday though). Eliot Landrum elandrum@bigfoot.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 23 18:11:46 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04227 for jdev-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:11:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04224 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:11:43 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id SAA11615 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA03957 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA10141 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id PAA10130 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:46:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Check this out.. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:34:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01be8dc0$451fc5e0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Guys, ANY of you that have been developing in C code under *nix, CHECK this FREE IDE out: http://www.cmeister.com/ It's simply incredible.. It offers most of the debugging tools and the such that Visual C++ does (Being able to step thru the execution, inspect variables, etc). It also supports CVS! It blew me away as far as C programmings concerned.. Another nice thing is during compiles, the IDE will list the compile errors and allow you to double click to bring you to the errors, and highlight 'em.. It's REALLY, REALLY nice.. When they finally come out with the pro version, I'm going to buy it.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 25 00:12:10 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09769 for jdev-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:12:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-248-128.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.248.128]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09764 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:11:45 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA00550 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:12:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199904250412.XAA00550@hawthorne.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:12:01 -0500 (CDT) From: dave@raystewart.com Subject: [JDEV] CVS access To: jdev@jabber.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Greetings... I'm interested in working on the ClientLib and/or ICQ transport, but I can't find any info on how to get anonymous CVS access...Can someone give me a hand? :) Thanks. D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 25 15:34:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12621 for jdev-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:34:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12618 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:34:30 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA17263 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:57:17 +0200 (TSI) Received: from [62.248.7.59] by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA10431; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:28:38 +0300 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:34:11 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] CVS access In-Reply-To: <199904250412.XAA00550@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hi. On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 dave@raystewart.com wrote: > I'm interested in working on the ClientLib and/or ICQ transport, but I > can't find any info on how to get anonymous CVS access...Can someone > give me a hand? :) :pserver:anoncvs@jabber.org:/cvs password is "anoncvs" ;) bye, disqk MICROS~1 is not the answer. MICROS~1 is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 25 17:27:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13128 for jdev-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:27:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-248-4.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.248.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13123 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:27:03 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02744 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:26:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199904252126.QAA02744@hawthorne.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:26:49 -0500 (CDT) From: dave@raystewart.com Subject: [JDEV] Suggestions To: jdev@jabber.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Greetings... I got the jabber source from CVS and have started my examination of it so that I could begin design on a client library. However, I've found some other interesting topics that I believe we should probably address first. It's primarily design issues, and I'm trying to give constructive criticism. :) A disclaimer, this is *not* a flame. Please read responsibly. :) To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) I code, so I know how much of a pain it is to put comments in while you're hacking. However, in a project of this size, it is absolutely *critical* that each person submit commented code. Now, before you get too steamed, let me laud you on the amount of design documents and discussion. Great job! Be aware, though, that in order for the code to be maintainable, people must understand the interactions. For example, I have found little->no information on any of the lib/ functions or types. What's an xpt_pool? What's it used for? What's a jpair? You follow? So enough complaining, now on to the interesting stuff. >From what I've read of the lib/ functions, it looks like you're using async sockets, with polling, to handle multiple connections. Is there a performance advantage to using this over threads & sync sockets? I'm not all that knowledgeble on async sockets, but I *do* know that polling is Bad News (tm). Furthermore, it tends to make the code more complicated, since each connection must be examined -- even if it's not busy. Let's consider the jabberbox router for a moment. As I understand the code (in my limited knowledge), the router maintains a list of connections to transports and polls these looking for inputs. As the routing packets come through, it parses the packet and forwards it on to the appropriate transport. Basically, this is a producer/consumer problem -- well suited to a multi-threaded approach with semaphores. Utilizing such an approach would probably signficantly (%25-%100) improve the performance of the router (especially on a multi-processor system). Well I must go now, but I'd like to hear your feedback before I continue. Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before!), but I'd love to see Jabber take off. I believe it's the Right Concept. All we gotta do now is execute properly. :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Sun Apr 25 18:18:58 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA13340 for jdev-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:18:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13337 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:18:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23265 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:21:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Suggestions In-Reply-To: <199904252126.QAA02744@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Right you are, on many points. The jabberbox router will be multi-threaded as soon as I have the time. As far as async vs. sync, that is an issue we will have to examine. Nick On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 dave@raystewart.com wrote: > Greetings... > > I got the jabber source from CVS and have started my examination of it > so that I could begin design on a client library. However, I've found > some other interesting topics that I believe we should probably > address first. It's primarily design issues, and I'm trying to give > constructive criticism. :) > > A disclaimer, this is *not* a flame. Please read responsibly. :) > > To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) I > code, so I know how much of a pain it is to put comments in while > you're hacking. However, in a project of this size, it is absolutely > *critical* that each person submit commented code. Now, before you get > too steamed, let me laud you on the amount of design documents and > discussion. Great job! Be aware, though, that in order for the code to > be maintainable, people must understand the interactions. For example, > I have found little->no information on any of the lib/ functions or > types. What's an xpt_pool? What's it used for? What's a jpair? You > follow? > > So enough complaining, now on to the interesting stuff. > > >From what I've read of the lib/ functions, it looks like you're using > async sockets, with polling, to handle multiple connections. Is there > a performance advantage to using this over threads & sync sockets? I'm > not all that knowledgeble on async sockets, but I *do* know that > polling is Bad News (tm). Furthermore, it tends to make the code more > complicated, since each connection must be examined -- even if it's > not busy. > > Let's consider the jabberbox router for a moment. As I understand the > code (in my limited knowledge), the router maintains a list of > connections to transports and polls these looking for inputs. As the > routing packets come through, it parses the packet and forwards it on > to the appropriate transport. Basically, this is a producer/consumer > problem -- well suited to a multi-threaded approach with > semaphores. Utilizing such an approach would probably signficantly > (%25-%100) improve the performance of the router (especially on a > multi-processor system). > > Well I must go now, but I'd like to hear your feedback before I > continue. Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before!), but I'd love to see > Jabber take off. I believe it's the Right Concept. All we gotta do now > is execute properly. :) > > D. > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 02:22:01 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA14950 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:22:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA14947 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:21:59 -0500 Received: from galtgulch (jonlin06.hilander.com [207.96.113.103]) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with SMTP id CAA08595 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:21:56 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990426021055.00ae9df0@chimera.acm.jhu.edu> X-Sender: cklempay@chimera.acm.jhu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:15:20 -0400 To: jdev@jabber.org From: "Corbett J. Klempay" Subject: [JDEV] awesome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey, I was hacking on the mod_digsig stuff for most of today...damn annoying. I was spending most of my time trying to come up with implementations of required infrastructure (a good suitable PRNG, good prime number generation, etc etc). I was using Google to look for some good C code for a PRNG to use, and ended up hitting paydirt, it seems...check out cryptlib: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/cryptlib/index.html Basically, this library is all C, and is free for noncommerical use (I think it said you need a license if you are using it for large scale commerical work). It *already has support for using major RDBMS's for key management*! (among many many other things) Postgres and MySQL are among the several supported databases (Oracle, MS SQL are both there too) Heck, it even supports using LDAP to do key lookups! And it's fast! When I get done with class tomorrow I'm going to read the 200+ page PDF manual that I'm printing out for it right now...and see about adding this stuff in. (one thing I need to figure out how to do is make sure I don't have to link in code for the zillions of algos I won't be using) CJK From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 11:29:50 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16801 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:29:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16798 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:29:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:29:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Suggestions In-Reply-To: <199904252126.QAA02744@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Greetings... > > I got the jabber source from CVS and have started my examination of it > so that I could begin design on a client library. However, I've found > some other interesting topics that I believe we should probably > address first. It's primarily design issues, and I'm trying to give > constructive criticism. :) Thanks for taking a serious look, it's needed it badly and your constructive criticism is welcomed and appreciated! > To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) I'm the one to burn at the stake for this one, *grin*. The dearth of comments is a problem, even for myself maintaining the code. For some time now I've been planning on going through and commenting everything, it just keeps getting put off and nobody has complained yet. But, now that someone is asking I'll make this a priority and check-in a ton of comments this week. > So enough complaining, now on to the interesting stuff. Let me add a bit of background quickly here: I basically had to learn C to do this project. I knew the design and architecture of Jabber, knew what I wanted, and knew that C was the most appropriate avenue. The only way to get rolling was to learn C and start coding :) So, you may notice a ton of naive things being done in the source, and when you do, please feel free to fix it or discuss it, it won't offend me in any way as I know I'm doing things wrong but I don't have enough experience(or time) to know how to do it better. I think the design is pretty solid, but any/all C code help is appreciated. > >From what I've read of the lib/ functions, it looks like you're using > async sockets, with polling, to handle multiple connections. Is there > a performance advantage to using this over threads & sync sockets? I'm > not all that knowledgeble on async sockets, but I *do* know that > polling is Bad News (tm). Furthermore, it tends to make the code more > complicated, since each connection must be examined -- even if it's > not busy. Threads are definately the way to go on this stuff, and that's always been in my "plan". I knew that if I can just "make it work" and express the intent of the design/architecture of Jabber, and others like it, they will jump in and help me figure out threading and other issues the "right way". > Let's consider the jabberbox router for a moment. As I understand the > code (in my limited knowledge), the router maintains a list of > connections to transports and polls these looking for inputs. As the > routing packets come through, it parses the packet and forwards it on > to the appropriate transport. Basically, this is a producer/consumer > problem -- well suited to a multi-threaded approach with > semaphores. Utilizing such an approach would probably signficantly > (%25-%100) improve the performance of the router (especially on a > multi-processor system). As above, I agree 100%. I've been trying to create a functional platform so that others can start building clients, transports, and modules ontop of it, and then ramp up the performance as things develop and demand it. > Well I must go now, but I'd like to hear your feedback before I > continue. Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before!), but I'd love to see > Jabber take off. I believe it's the Right Concept. All we gotta do now > is execute properly. :) Yes, perfect! If you think you have some time to seriously help out on these parts, we can work on getting you commit access and familiarized with the rest of the group :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 11:57:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17055 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:57:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17052 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:57:15 -0500 Received: from galtgulch (jonlin06.hilander.com [207.96.113.103]) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with SMTP id LAA12669 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:57:05 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990426114727.02ed0f10@chimera.acm.jhu.edu> X-Sender: cklempay@chimera.acm.jhu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:48:35 -0400 To: jdev@jabber.org From: "Corbett J. Klempay" Subject: [JDEV] oops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I just realized what probably will prevent me from using the cryptlib I mentioned last night...since it has its own non-GPL licence, it would prevent us from distributing Jabber under the GPL (which is the idea, correct?) I guess it's back to the coding, then.... CJK From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 12:19:29 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17232 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:19:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-250-6.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.250.6]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17229 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:19:25 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00667 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:20:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199904261620.LAA00667@hawthorne.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:20:03 -0500 (CDT) From: dsmith@ai.uwf.edu Subject: Re: [JDEV] oops To: jdev@jabber.org In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990426114727.02ed0f10@chimera.acm.jhu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On 26 Apr, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > I just realized what probably will prevent me from using the cryptlib I > mentioned last night...since it has its own non-GPL licence, it would > prevent us from distributing Jabber under the GPL (which is the idea, > correct?) I guess it's back to the coding, then.... > > CJK Actually, Peter Gutmann is a big supporter of GPL'ed projects. :) If you're familiar with the GNUPG project, he (at one time) offered to dual-license the PRNG from cryptlib to GNUPG. You might drop him a line an inquire as to the possiblity of getting GPL rights for the Jabber project -- the worst that can happen is that he says no. :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 12:24:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17271 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:24:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17267 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:24:09 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA12915 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA12049 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA16351 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id MAA16343 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:20:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Suggestions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:07:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be8ffe$f28f5f20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Suggestions > > To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) > I'm the one to burn at the stake for this one, *grin*. > The dearth of comments is a problem, even for myself maintaining the code. > For some time now I've been planning on going through and commenting > everything, it just keeps getting put off and nobody has complained yet. > But, now that someone is asking I'll make this a priority and check-in a > ton of comments this week. Ok, I'm not really going to add it as another 'complaint', but you should at least have an README.xpt that secribes how it works, described jpairs, and all of the functions.. I figured them out, but it'd be nice to see changes in the docs as the functions change, so I can change what I need to on the other end.. > > Well I must go now, but I'd like to hear your feedback before I > > continue. Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before!), but I'd love to see > > Jabber take off. I believe it's the Right Concept. All we gotta do now > > is execute properly. :) > Yes, perfect! If you think you have some time to seriously help out on > these parts, we can work on getting you commit access and familiarized > with the rest of the group :) I agree. I'm seeing so many ways Jabber could be used, as I said earlier, for things NOTHING to do with person to person IM. It's almost like programs being able to send email to eachother to communicate, but without the overhead. I also must say I'm sorry for not having finished of the demo Perl code, or done as much work on the Win32 client as I would have liked as of recent. We WILL have a basic working client for the release by the first, I promise that, but I'm afraid all of the bells and wistles may not be tested much/or work. I should also have the Mobilecomm pager transport working, which will also be extensible by specifying a provider. All you'd need to do is supply a 'template' URL to call up with the information. Here's an example: http://epage.arch.com/cgi-bin/epage.cgi?response_page=http%3A%2F%2Fepage.arc h.com%2Fresponse.html&mailto=@PAGERNUMBER@&from=&replyto=&subject=&message=@ MESSAGE@ In this example, @PAGERNUMBER@ will get replaced wih the pagerID, (aka, message sent to 167289@pagerperl will replace it with 167289), and @MESSAGE@ will contain the message, escaped as needed to be pushed thru via HTTP GET. Another example: http://www.mobilecomm.com/cgi-bin/wwwpage.exe?PIN=@PAGERNUMBER&MSSG=@MESSAGE @&Q1=2 This one does thesame as above, but for mobilecomm pagers. Same thing, get's via HTTP GET, sends the message.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 12:34:14 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17352 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:34:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17347 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:34:08 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA17372 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA17030 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA12249 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id MAA12234 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:05:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Suggestions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be8ffc$dfcf7c00$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Suggestions > > To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) > I'm the one to burn at the stake for this one, *grin*. > The dearth of comments is a problem, even for myself maintaining the code. > For some time now I've been planning on going through and commenting > everything, it just keeps getting put off and nobody has complained yet. > But, now that someone is asking I'll make this a priority and check-in a > ton of comments this week. Ok, I'm not really going to add it as another 'complaint', but you should at least have an README.xpt that secribes how it works, described jpairs, and all of the functions.. I figured them out, but it'd be nice to see changes in the docs as the functions change, so I can change what I need to on the other end.. > > Well I must go now, but I'd like to hear your feedback before I > > continue. Maybe I'm wrong (it's happened before!), but I'd love to see > > Jabber take off. I believe it's the Right Concept. All we gotta do now > > is execute properly. :) > Yes, perfect! If you think you have some time to seriously help out on > these parts, we can work on getting you commit access and familiarized > with the rest of the group :) I agree. I'm seeing so many ways Jabber could be used, as I said earlier, for things NOTHING to do with person to person IM. It's almost like programs being able to send email to eachother to communicate, but without the overhead. I also must say I'm sorry for not having finished of the demo Perl code, or done as much work on the Win32 client as I would have liked as of recent. We WILL have a basic working client for the release by the first, I promise that, but I'm afraid all of the bells and wistles may not be tested much/or work. I should also have the Mobilecomm pager transport working, which will also be extensible by specifying a provider. All you'd need to do is supply a 'template' URL to call up with the information. Here's an example: http://epage.arch.com/cgi-bin/epage.cgi?response_page=http%3A%2F%2Fepage.arc h.com%2Fresponse.html&mailto=@PAGERNUMBER@&from=&replyto=&subject=&message=@ MESSAGE@ In this example, @PAGERNUMBER@ will get replaced wih the pagerID, (aka, message sent to 167289@pagerperl will replace it with 167289), and @MESSAGE@ will contain the message, escaped as needed to be pushed thru via HTTP GET. Another example: http://www.mobilecomm.com/cgi-bin/wwwpage.exe?PIN=@PAGERNUMBER&MSSG=@MESSAGE @&Q1=2 This one does thesame as above, but for mobilecomm pagers. Same thing, get's via HTTP GET, sends the message.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 12:43:02 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17464 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:43:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17461 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:42:59 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA20529 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA19976 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA21036 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id MAA21029 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:38:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] oops Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:25:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000101be9001$75148a40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990426114727.02ed0f10@chimera.acm.jhu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I don't see how the crytlib licence prevents it from being distributed with GPL'd software. The licence itself is virtually identical TO the gpl. Here's a copy for those of you who haven't taken a peek: --- Licence This software is distributed as copyrighted freeware, with copyrights on individual encryption modules being held by the contributing authors. You are free to use the code in any way you want, with the following restrictions: - If you make any changes to the code, you should send a copy of the changes to the author or authors to allow them to integrate the changes into the code. This is to allow a central consistent version to be maintained. - If you use the library as part of a product, you should offer a copy to the authors of the library. This is to let the authors know that their work is being usefully applied. You should also give the authors credit in your software and/or documentation. This is to let others know that the authors work is being usefully applied :-). - Any commercial software you create with this code may not be merely a set or subset of the encryption library, with or without minor added functionality. In particular you can't sell the library (or any modified form of it) as "your" encryption product. You can sell your own product which utilizes the encryption library, but you can't charge for the library itself or claim it as yours. This is to stop people adding their own wrappers and selling it as "their" encryption product. These terms are pretty much identical to the library GPL, which seem to be about the least restrictive usage terms around apart from outright public domain software. --- Addressed one by one: 1) Since we are distributing under GPL, source will be provided back to the author. 2) Same as above.. Author get's a copyof the source. 3) This isn't commercial software, we're not selling it. We'd have a problem if someone decided to package it up and sell their version, which yes, is legal under GPL, but that becomes there problem, now doesn't it? Also, the GPL merely states that any software based on it must be released as full source, which this does... -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Corbett J. Klempay > Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 11:49 AM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] oops > > > I just realized what probably will prevent me from using the cryptlib I > mentioned last night...since it has its own non-GPL licence, it would > prevent us from distributing Jabber under the GPL (which is the idea, > correct?) I guess it's back to the coding, then.... > > CJK > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 12:49:43 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17524 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:49:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17521 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:49:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id MAA13243 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:49:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] oops In-Reply-To: <000101be9001$75148a40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Ok...this is good...I hadn't paid enough attention to the license. Anyway, I should get a totally definitive answer soon...I just finished firing off an email to Peter Gutmann just before Thomas' last message came in... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > I don't see how the crytlib licence prevents it from being distributed with > GPL'd software. The licence itself is virtually identical TO the gpl. > Here's a copy for those of you who haven't taken a peek: > > --- Licence > This software is distributed as copyrighted freeware, with copyrights on > individual encryption modules being held by the contributing authors. You > are > free to use the code in any way you want, with the following restrictions: > > - If you make any changes to the code, you should send a copy of the changes > to > the author or authors to allow them to integrate the changes into the > code. > This is to allow a central consistent version to be maintained. > > - If you use the library as part of a product, you should offer a copy to > the > authors of the library. This is to let the authors know that their work > is > being usefully applied. You should also give the authors credit in your > software and/or documentation. This is to let others know that the > authors > work is being usefully applied :-). > > - Any commercial software you create with this code may not be merely a set > or > subset of the encryption library, with or without minor added > functionality. > In particular you can't sell the library (or any modified form of it) as > "your" encryption product. You can sell your own product which utilizes > the > encryption library, but you can't charge for the library itself or claim > it > as yours. This is to stop people adding their own wrappers and selling it > as > "their" encryption product. > > > These terms are pretty much identical to the library GPL, which seem to be > about the least restrictive usage terms around apart from outright public > domain software. > --- > > Addressed one by one: > > 1) Since we are distributing under GPL, source will be provided back to the > author. > > 2) Same as above.. Author get's a copyof the source. > > 3) This isn't commercial software, we're not selling it. We'd have a > problem if someone decided to package it up and sell their version, which > yes, is legal under GPL, but that becomes there problem, now doesn't it? > > Also, the GPL merely states that any software based on it must be released > as full source, which this does... > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > > Corbett J. Klempay > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 11:49 AM > > To: jdev@jabber.org > > Subject: [JDEV] oops > > > > > > I just realized what probably will prevent me from using the cryptlib I > > mentioned last night...since it has its own non-GPL licence, it would > > prevent us from distributing Jabber under the GPL (which is the idea, > > correct?) I guess it's back to the coding, then.... > > > > CJK > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 14:51:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17993 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:51:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17988 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:51:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:51:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] General Welcome! (please read) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org This message is intended to help familiarize everyone involved or interested in Jabber as to the status and direction of the project as a whole. We're just bridging into a new phase of development for Jabber, so I thought this would be a good time to take a larger look at where we have been, where we are, and where we are going. ### Jabber? It's been an interesting and bumpy ride so far. Jabber started almost a full year ago when I realized that I couldn't stand ICQ and wanted instant messaging to work FOR ME since it was becoming a frequent tool. As I started developing it and talking to others, I quickly came to realize that I wasn't the only one looking in this direction. Soon I started to understand that the approach I was taking was unique and had significant potential to solve this and other problems for lots of other people. So I took the time to develop my ideas fully and start coding them as best I could. ### Jabber. After I announced Jabber in early January of this year, things started to materialize and Jabber became a full-fledged open source project. The resources involved were a bit more than I expected and development slowed, but some important landmarks have been met. The most significant development is that Jabber now uses a full-fledged XML parser, Expat, the same one used by Perl, Mozilla, and Apache(future versions). This has allowed a more expressive protocol modeled after a normal XML document, which is easier for other XML parsers to process and programmers to deal with. ### Jabber! After an almost complete re-write from the ground up, the next release is quickly approaching. This release will bring a solid server base and stable protocol/API to start building on for other important pieces of Jabber. There are a couple of strategic directions from this point forward: o) Documentation A large effort needs to be made to fully document Jabber from the source code level all the way up to end-user FAQs. This includes man pages, developer READMEs, operation guides, development overviews, user introductions, and so forth. This may be one of the most lacking pieces yet, and will be getting a good deal of attention over the next phase. o) Clients Already there is some great client development going on, and I only expect this to dramatically ramp up as people start to actually use Jabber. We currently have Win32, GTK, Java, command line, and TCL clients progressing wonderfully, with a pure HTML based CGI client and a Mozilla-integrated client on the drawing board. There will be MANY needs to serve in this area, so expect lots of activity! o) Transports One of the single most important features of Jabber is the transparent medium-independence, so that anything speaking Jabber can also transparently talk to ICQ, AIM, Yahoo pager, email, IRC, and more. This all happens "on the network" without requiring any linking or application-level effort. Expect to see some RAPID growth here in the very near future as ICQ and AIM transports get rolling and Jabber users can start replacing their old clients and still talk to their old buddies. ### Getting Involved This is a wonderfully vast and experience-rich project to start getting involved with. We are at the stage now where much help is needed in lots of areas, and you have the opportunity to get "in" early and play a major role. Myself and others already know that Jabber has the potential to explode onto the net, possibly as the next "killer app" piggybacking off of the XML revolution, so come join the excitement and help shape the future of instant messaging! The most important places to help at are: * Clients: Assist with an existing client development project or start your own * Transports: Help create a bridge if you are familiar with ICQ, AIM, or any other messaging protocol * Testing: Check out the clients and play with the servers, report bugs, participate on jdev * Core Code: Help with portability, performance, bugs, functionality, is all appreciated * Modules: Write modules to manage users and user information on the server-side * Promote: Help promote the platform for it's virtues and bring more experience to the development pool ### Dreamworld It may sound dreamy, but Jabber has the potential to change a lot of rules. If you are familiar with unix, especially in a university environment, you'll know how finger, talk, ytalk, who, and write all work and play a fun and important role. Jabber can become a drop-in replacement on a unix distribution for all of those services, and because of it's architecture, still maintain backward compatibility. The independence of medium and availability of transports will cause a consolidation of effort at the programmers level, so an application being developed can easily plug into a near real-time rich communication environment. In other words, for example, a programmer could write a simple perl script that would instantly be accessible via a web browser, windows client, and from AIM, and communicate back to any of those. Think of all of the "small instant" pieces of data that would increase in value exponentially by being transported via Jabber: stock tickers, news alerts, weather updates/warning, error messages, important company announcements, calendar notices, and so on. There is a good deal of email on corporate intranets that would be far better communicated via Jabber, especially if it is time critical. In the end, you start to realize the immense potential of this platform and project, and then you realize that it's inevitable and going to be here Real Soon Now. ### Conclusion We've made some amazing progress, and we are now at the turning point where development picks up. There is a lot of great things happening here, and anyone is welcome to join in to help create a free open instant messaging platform! Keep an eye out over the next few months for more exciting development, and thanks to those already developing, supporting, and promoting Jabber! Jer jeremie@jabber.org From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 16:36:37 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18390 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:36:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18387 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:36:33 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id QAB08097 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA10026 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA06370 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA06361 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:44:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Suggestions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:31:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be8ff9$ddbe0880$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199904252126.QAA02744@hawthorne.com> Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > dave@raystewart.com > Subject: [JDEV] Suggestions > I got the jabber source from CVS and have started my examination of it > so that I could begin design on a client library. However, I've found > some other interesting topics that I believe we should probably > address first. It's primarily design issues, and I'm trying to give > constructive criticism. :) I'm insulted.. I think I shall now have to put on my black trench, grab my copy of Doom, and head over to your house.. (*JOKE!!!!*) > To begin, let's start with a technique known as "commenting". :) I Never heard of it.. ;-P Seriously, though, I do have my current code commented, but have not checked in to CVS as of yet. (And seeing how this is the Win32 code, prob. won't do you much good, beside's, perhaps, a simpler example of using xpt_pool..) > code, so I know how much of a pain it is to put comments in while > you're hacking. However, in a project of this size, it is absolutely > *critical* that each person submit commented code. Now, before you get 'Spec with Windows code.. With all of the bloat that Visual C++ has in it, good commenting is critical to understand what the hell is going on under the hood. I totally understandwhere your comming from.. > too steamed, let me laud you on the amount of design documents and > discussion. Great job! Be aware, though, that in order for the code to > be maintainable, people must understand the interactions. For example, > I have found little->no information on any of the lib/ functions or > types. What's an xpt_pool? What's it used for? What's a jpair? You > follow? Sshh.. You want us to give away our secrets?? But then people could UNDERSTAND it, and we wouldn't look NEARLY as SMART!! (ANOTHER JOKE!.. Jer, put DOWN THAT GUN, RIGHT NOW!!) > From what I've read of the lib/ functions, it looks like you're using > async sockets, with polling, to handle multiple connections. Is there > a performance advantage to using this over threads & sync sockets? I'm > not all that knowledgeble on async sockets, but I *do* know that > polling is Bad News (tm). Furthermore, it tends to make the code more > complicated, since each connection must be examined -- even if it's > not busy. Which is why in the Windows code, I'm not using a bit of their networking code. Microsoft Foundation Classes has a class named, ironically enough, CAsyncSocket, which uses callbacks to tell you when you can send/recieve. Here's a breif desc. of how it works: You try to send out using CAsyncSocket::Send(). If it fails, add it to an outgoing buffer. Also set up a timer to call CAsyncSocket::Recieve() a couple times a second. If either fails becouse of blocking, when the socket is free again, the functions that you override, CJabberSocket::OnSend() and CJabberSocket::OnRecieve(), are called. As much as I don't like Microsoft as a company, MFC is pretty damned nice.. Also, when you call Connect(), you can go on your merry way, as OnConnect() is called when it connects. There are several callbacks that allow you to thread is and work off of callbacks. If you KNOW of any non Microsoft classes that do this as well, I'd LOVE to get my hands on 'em. I could then make my libs cross platform vs. tied to Microsoft OS's.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 22:19:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19525 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:19:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-250-121.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.250.121]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19522 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:19:04 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00624 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:19:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199904270219.VAA00624@hawthorne.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:19:45 -0500 (CDT) From: dsmith@ai.uwf.edu Subject: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Letters) To: jdev@jabber.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Greetings... This one's gonna be long. Better make sure you have some Dew... :) By nature, XML is a heirarchial language. Basically, you can take any well-formed XML document and parse it into a N-ary tree (tree with n children per parent). This is a very powerful concept and I think we can put it into good use. Let's define some specific terminology (for debate): Tag: an XML tag (e.g. or or Conversation: the exchange of XML tags between two processes (whether they be local or remote). Session (a.k.a root tag): a set of tags (in this case, ) that signify the beginning and ending of a jabber client/server conversation. Packet: a set of *specific* tags (and all data contained within) which represent a complete thought in a conversation. In the current protocol, are all examples of a packet. Each packet may contain many sub-tags and datums. Attribute: a name/value pair stored within an opening tag. Each tag may have multiple attributes. Datum: a raw value stored between two tags. For instance, in the packet "HELLO!" the string "HELLO!" is the datum. Each tag may contain multiple datums, each seperated by a set of sub-tags. For instance, in the packet "HELLO!GreetingsQUICK!", the "d" tag has multiple datums "HELLO!" and "QUICK!". Multiple datums are merged into a single unbroken string (still thinking about this idea...) At this point, you should be warned that I've worked primarily with object-oriented languages and will express my structure in a loose C++ grammar... With these definitions in mind, we can specify a set concrete data structures to represent a parsed XML session. We (could have) the following objects/data structures: class tag_t { // Variables char* name; attribset_t* attribs; tagset_t* tags; char* datum; // Operations char* getAttribValue(char* AttribName); char* getDatum(); tag_t* getTag(char* TagName); bool hasAttrib(char* AttribName); bool hasTag(char* TagName); } class attrib_t { // Variables char* name; char* value; } class attribset_t { // Maintains some hashtable of attrib_t pointers, hashed // by name for quick lookup // Operations bool hasAttrib(char* AttribName); char* getAttribValue(char* AttribName); attrib_t* getAttrib(char* AttribName); } Basically these objects provide a way to represent a complete XML document, along with navigation of the sub-tags. This is really critical to the client libs. This way, people who write clients don't have to even worry about linking with expat or parsing XML. When a packet arrives from the server, it's parsed into a tag_t and returned to the client with no thinking on the client side. It would probably be best to use this at the common lib level, since the entire project would benefit from such a structure. :) If you are lost, say so and I'll post an example of how these objects would interact. :) So, that's the first of my thoughts on the client-lib. I realize that the project is C. May I politely inquire as to the possiblities of using c++? More later. :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 22:47:07 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19665 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:47:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19662 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:47:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id WAA17842 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:46:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] license Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I haven't heard back from Peter Gutmann at all, but I think we cannot put it out under GPL...this is ripped from the header of one of the bigint code files: * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version or * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot simply be * copied and put under another distribution licence * [including the GNU Public Licence.] So what does this mean for us? I mean, do we avoid using this if we cannot put it out under GPL? Or do we use it and put it out under its license? (as in how important is it that we release under GPL) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 23:02:16 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19767 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:02:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19764 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:02:14 -0500 Received: from montague (tcnet01-61.houston.texas.net [209.99.28.61]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id WAA20100 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:01:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:00:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Eliot Landrum X-Sender: eliot@montague To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] license In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: http://lonestar.texas.net/~landrum/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'm not really following how this code is going to be fit into the project, so if this is irrelevant, please disregard - this is just a thought I had. A lot of times if an item cannot be included because of specific licensing problems, it is done as a module or patch type of thing that can be downloaded seperetly (precompiled or what have you). Would it be possible to do that for this? Just an idea that popped in my head.. (gosh that happens too much!). Eliot Landrum elandrum@bigfoot.com On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > I haven't heard back from Peter Gutmann at all, but I think we cannot put > it out under GPL...this is ripped from the header of one of the bigint > code files: > > * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version > or > * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot > simply be > * copied and put under another distribution licence > * [including the GNU Public Licence.] > > So what does this mean for us? I mean, do we avoid using this if we > cannot put it out under GPL? Or do we use it and put it out under its > license? (as in how important is it that we release under GPL) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join > together to share their lack of > wealth." > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 23:05:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19819 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:05:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-250-121.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.250.121]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19814 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:05:07 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00711 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199904270304.WAA00711@hawthorne.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:43 -0500 (CDT) From: dsmith@ai.uwf.edu Subject: RE: [JDEV] Suggestions To: jdev@jabber.org In-Reply-To: <000501be8ff9$ddbe0880$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On 26 Apr, Thomas Charron wrote: > I'm insulted.. I think I shall now have to put on my black trench, grab my > copy of Doom, and head over to your house.. Bring it on! :) I must confess I'm somewhat of a Quake/Half-life deathmatch player. I don't like booting to Windows, but when I do, it's to play some deathmatch... :) But i'm not much on trench... > example of using xpt_pool..) Cool. I'll check it out... > > Which is why in the Windows code, I'm not using a bit of their networking > code. Microsoft Foundation Classes has a class named, ironically enough, > CAsyncSocket, which uses callbacks to tell you when you can send/recieve. Actually, I'm developing multi-threaded NT service for a project at school and I'm just using the standard Winsock calls (No WSA_ crap, either). As of Winsock 2.0, all standard BSD socket calls can be safely multi-threaded (which is mucho simpler than using their async stuff). It works really well and is (with the exception of the WSAStartup calls) portable. Let me know if you need more specifics... D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 23:08:58 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19858 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:08:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19855 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:08:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id XAA17972 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:08:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:08:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] license In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org The code in question (cryptlib) would be used in both the server and the client. The server would make use of mod_digsig to give it support for dealing with digital signature capable clients...so one would think that you would want as many as possible (if not all) servers to have this support enabled, as otherwise their clients cannot make use of their extended capabilities. mod_digsig allows clients to securely log on, as well as for the server to be able to issue digital certificates. The code would be used on the client end for signing and verification when dealing with other clients (and also for securely logging onto the server). The license thing could be skirted a bit (as you suggested) if it was just a separate module that could be downloaded/enabled at will...and clients will be much this way. (client authors can choose to make vanilla as well as authenticated clients available) *But*, since you'll likely want as many servers as possible to have it enabled, it's going to be the case that the license issue will come up with all of the servers running it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Eliot Landrum wrote: > I'm not really following how this code is going to be fit into the > project, so if this is irrelevant, please disregard - this is just a > thought I had. A lot of times if an item cannot be included because of > specific licensing problems, it is done as a module or patch type of thing > that can be downloaded seperetly (precompiled or what have you). Would it > be possible to do that for this? > > Just an idea that popped in my head.. (gosh that happens too much!). > > Eliot Landrum > elandrum@bigfoot.com > > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > > > I haven't heard back from Peter Gutmann at all, but I think we cannot put > > it out under GPL...this is ripped from the header of one of the bigint > > code files: > > > > * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version > > or > > * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot > > simply be > > * copied and put under another distribution licence > > * [including the GNU Public Licence.] > > > > So what does this mean for us? I mean, do we avoid using this if we > > cannot put it out under GPL? Or do we use it and put it out under its > > license? (as in how important is it that we release under GPL) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > > http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join > > together to share their lack of > > wealth." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Mon Apr 26 23:22:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20058 for jdev-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:22:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20055 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:22:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id XAA18097 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:22:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] my thoughts on the licenses stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I was just thinking...as far as how important it is (or isn't) for us to issue all of it under the GPL...I think it is better that we use a toolkit such as this instead of me rolling a totally new one for us. Sure, it may not be pure GPL, but as far as the end user is concerned, it's just as free (as in they never have to pay squat). There seem to be just some little differences between this license and the GPL. I'd much rather have this scenario and be using code that's robust, tested, and very fast...and implemented by a crypto pimp, instead of some random college senior who is taking his first crypto class; I know that if I were and end user I'd have much more faith in crypto routines from something like cryptlib instead of from a guy like myself :) When Peter Gutmann replies (assuming he does eventually) about how much (if at all) this clashes with the GPL, I'll forward his reply here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 02:41:56 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA20980 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:41:56 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-33.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.162]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA20977 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:41:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26405 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:45:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:45:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Letters) In-Reply-To: <199904270219.VAA00624@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > This one's gonna be long. Better make sure you have some Dew... :) Ahh... the nectar of the gods! :) > By nature, XML is a heirarchial language. Basically, you can take any > well-formed XML document and parse it into a N-ary tree (tree with n > children per parent). This is a very powerful concept and I think we can > put it into good use. > [rest of doc...] Firstly, that's an excellent description of the terminology, wanna help write developer docs? *grin* This is mostly my fault for lack-of-comments at this point, but what you describe is almost exactly what the xpt structure is in the client lib. The only big difference is that it uses jpairs(simple linked lists) for the attributes and is C based with supporting functions instead of a C++ class. Now, xpt isn't the most wonderful thing in the world(although it works quite well for most simple things), so how do we improve it? Well, thanks to the fact that we're not the only ones trying to solve this very problem, the W3C has blessed the DOM as the "standard" way to express parsed XML via an API. I'd love to start working on a simple C based DOM and will do so if the need presents itself, but I'm hoping that someone else out there on the net will beat me to it :) > So, that's the first of my thoughts on the client-lib. I realize that > the project is C. May I politely inquire as to the possiblities of > using c++? I haven't done any c++, but everything I know about it makes me want to :) I'm a very object-based thinker, so everything I've been doing in C is just about object oriented as C gets. The problem is that I really believe that the core code(server and libs) should be entirely pure cross platform C. I've seen all kinds of arguments back and forth on this very subject(especially on the Apache list, whew :), but in the end it still seems that to provide the most options to developers and most XP compatability, servers and libs should stick with C. But, as I want to start working with C++ and because of the way Jabber is designed, we should all be able to play happily. I'd like to see the common lib just consist of simple important C routines and structures, and have it play nice with any C++ app utilizing it. The same goes for building the Jabber Transport, so that C++ modules can be written easily. Most importantly, if your preference is C++, simply implement the protocol and your set, no need to utilize anything else if you are capable of going it your own. There's probably lots better ways to do things in pure C++ and there's no reason we can't distribute that as an option :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 02:52:25 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA21057 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:52:25 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-33.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.162]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21054 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:52:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26410 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:56:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:56:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] license In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'm still not sure that this is an issue... There's nothing that prevents a single tar file from installing both the default jabber modules and optionally the mod_digsig and crypt libs. IANAL, but I think the problem is when you start linking the incompatable licenses together into one executable... Jer On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > The code in question (cryptlib) would be used in both the server and the > client. The server would make use of mod_digsig to give it support for > dealing with digital signature capable clients...so one would think that > you would want as many as possible (if not all) servers to have this > support enabled, as otherwise their clients cannot make use of their > extended capabilities. mod_digsig allows clients to securely log on, as > well as for the server to be able to issue digital certificates. The code > would be used on the client end for signing and verification when dealing > with other clients (and also for securely logging onto the server). The > license thing could be skirted a bit (as you suggested) if it was just a > separate module that could be downloaded/enabled at will...and clients > will be much this way. (client authors can choose to make vanilla as well > as authenticated clients available) *But*, since you'll likely want as > many servers as possible to have it enabled, it's going to be the case > that the license issue will come up with all of the servers running it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join > together to share their lack of > wealth." > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 11:23:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA22857 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:23:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22854 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:23:46 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA03419 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA02484 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA09414 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA09410 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Letters) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:07:49 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01be90bf$b6dde020$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199904270219.VAA00624@hawthorne.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of dsmith@ai.uwf.edu > Subject: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital > Letters) > This one's gonna be long. Better make sure you have some Dew... :) Nah, it's morning.. Coffee.. ;-P > With these definitions in mind, we can specify a set concrete data > structures to represent a parsed XML session. We (could have) the > following objects/data structures: > class tag_t > { > // Variables > char* name; > > attribset_t* attribs; > tagset_t* tags; > > char* datum; > > // Operations > char* getAttribValue(char* AttribName); > char* getDatum(); > tag_t* getTag(char* TagName); > > bool hasAttrib(char* AttribName); > bool hasTag(char* TagName); > } The above already exists as the xpt struct in the common libs, as shown below: typedef struct xpt_struct { int type; int status; char *name; char *value; jpair *attributes; struct xpt_struct *children; struct xpt_struct *next; struct xpt_struct *parent; } xpt; All your above really does is objectasize (IS that a word?) this type of thing. > Basically these objects provide a way to represent a complete XML > document, along with navigation of the sub-tags. This is really > critical to the client libs. This way, people who write clients don't > have to even worry about linking with expat or parsing XML. When a > packet arrives from the server, it's parsed into a tag_t and returned > to the client with no thinking on the client side. It would probably be > best to use this at the common lib level, since the entire project > would benefit from such a structure. :) See above, only thecommon lib current has functions in xpt.c that do what your talking about. Here's an idea. We could do exactly what your talking about, but write some C++ wrappers around the current code, hence, we have both a C and C++ way of doing things.. > So, that's the first of my thoughts on the client-lib. I realize that > the project is C. May I politely inquire as to the possiblities of > using c++? I am doing this current in the Windows client, using Visual C++. My original idea was exactly what your talking about, making a generic C++ class, in my case, stored in a DLL that could be used by any program to 'Jabberify' it easily. I like where your going, but I think we can use our current code base to do this fairly easily.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 14:02:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA23758 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:02:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-248-1.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.248.1]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23755 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:02:25 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02629 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:01:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199904271801.NAA02629@hawthorne.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:01:51 -0500 (CDT) From: dsmith@ai.uwf.edu Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Lette rs) To: jdev@jabber.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Firstly, that's an excellent description of the terminology, wanna help > write developer docs? *grin* I wouldn't mind at all. Gimme some comments and I'll give you some docs. :) > This is mostly my fault for lack-of-comments at this point, but what you > describe is almost exactly what the xpt structure is in the client lib. > The only big difference is that it uses jpairs(simple linked lists) for > the attributes and is C based with supporting functions instead of a C++ > class. That's cool. Makes a little more sense now... > problem, the W3C has blessed the DOM as the "standard" way to express > parsed XML via an API. I'd love to start working on a simple C based DOM Doh! I thought I had come up with a awesome solution to the world's problems XML...Oh well. :) I've skimmed over the DOM this morning (while i shoulda been studying for finals) and was pretty impressed. If the Jabber project is *really* going to take advantage of XML, it seems like we oughta go ahead and implement the fully DOM internally. It's a lot of extra work, initally, but it would really simplify the final architecture and implementation of new transports, modules, etc... > I haven't done any c++, but everything I know about it makes me want to :) > I'm a very object-based thinker, so everything I've been doing in C is > just about object oriented as C gets. Da, I noticed that in the code. Kudos to you and the others. :) It would probably be good to continue this approach. > The problem is that I really believe that the core code(server and libs) > should be entirely pure cross platform C. I've seen all kinds of This really isn't a big problem, either. With good code organization and a pseudo-object oriented approach it shouldn't be all that hard to share the advantages of both. And when we want to provide C++ access to the DOM, parser and such, writing a set of c++ wrappers will be trivial. > Most importantly, if your preference is C++, simply implement the protocol > and your set, no need to utilize anything else if you are capable of going > it your own. There's probably lots better ways to do things in pure C++ > and there's no reason we can't distribute that as an option :) True, I guess. However, this kinda defeats the reason of having a "common" library. :) So, I concur with you. Let's write a DOM. :) I found a C++ implementation on another project (www.berlin-consortium.org) and we can probably use that as an example... D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 14:07:11 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA23805 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:07:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23802 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:07:08 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA04819 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA04757 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA10340 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA10336 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] license Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:11:21 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01be90c0$3586cd60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Corbett J. Klempay > Subject: [JDEV] license > I haven't heard back from Peter Gutmann at all, but I think we cannot put > it out under GPL...this is ripped from the header of one of the bigint > code files: > * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version > or > * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot > simply be > * copied and put under another distribution licence > * [including the GNU Public Licence.] > So what does this mean for us? I mean, do we avoid using this if we > cannot put it out under GPL? Or do we use it and put it out under its > license? (as in how important is it that we release under GPL) You can distribute multiple parts of the code in one package under different licences without much of a problem. Either that, or the crypto package can be distributed optionally under a different licence. I am current asking around some of my other mailing lits about it, but as far as I can tell currently, ANY program can make function calls to a library, as long as the package is not included as PART of the software package. I'm not sure how this is dealt with as far as statically linking a library is concerned, though.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 14:12:10 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA23861 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:12:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23857 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:12:08 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA07452 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA14833 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA14113 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA14109 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Letters) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:26:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01be90c2$5d8f9a60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital > Letters) > Firstly, that's an excellent description of the terminology, wanna help > write developer docs? *grin* I second that motion.. All opposed, please raise your hands.. (Tom dawns a black trench, and a giant super-soaker) > Now, xpt isn't the most wonderful thing in the world(although it works > quite well for most simple things), so how do we improve it? Well, thanks > to the fact that we're not the only ones trying to solve this very > problem, the W3C has blessed the DOM as the "standard" way to express > parsed XML via an API. I'd love to start working on a simple C based DOM > and will do so if the need presents itself, but I'm hoping that someone > else out there on the net will beat me to it :) You are evil.. You now much die.. (Jer finds himself suddenly SOAKING wet).. What they're not telling you is DOM actually standard for the 'Demonic Object Model'. ;-P > I haven't done any c++, but everything I know about it makes me want to :) > I'm a very object-based thinker, so everything I've been doing in C is > just about object oriented as C gets. Actually, you've been using a basterdized idea of what C++ should do in C.. ;-P Basically, functions that do things to structs, which is nearly the same as having the structs be objects containing the functions you wantto call on them.. ;-P\ > The problem is that I really believe that the core code(server and libs) > should be entirely pure cross platform C. I've seen all kinds of > arguments back and forth on this very subject(especially on the Apache > list, whew :), but in the end it still seems that to provide the most > options to developers and most XP compatability, servers and libs should > stick with C. Agreed. We can always encapsulate the C to make it work in an object oriented language. Look at the Gtk toolkit. It's all in C, but you can use it fromevery language under the sun.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 18:02:43 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25083 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25080 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Lette rs) In-Reply-To: <199904271801.NAA02629@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I wouldn't mind at all. Gimme some comments and I'll give you some > docs. :) En-route, shipping overnight via CVS :) > [snip] > > If the Jabber project is *really* going to take advantage of XML, it > seems like we oughta go ahead and implement the fully DOM internally. > It's a lot of extra work, initally, but it would really simplify the > final architecture and implementation of new transports, modules, etc... You don't know how many time's I've almost started coding this :) > > So, I concur with you. Let's write a DOM. :) I found a C++ > implementation on another project (www.berlin-consortium.org) and we > can probably use that as an example... And here's the reasons I haven't started it yet: complexity... The DOM is overly-complex so that it can handle ANY XML data for ANY purpose. Here within Jabber we only have one set of data and one purpose, so there is a large amount of overhead and extra work in the DOM that is not needed. My approach is thus: if there is a simple C-based clean DOM implementation that sits ontop of Expat cleanly, I'll be the first to check that sucker in and redo the parts that would rely on it. I don't have the time to go writing it at this point(although I'd love to, not just for Jabber but for other small projects). Also, all Jabber _really_ needs to do is extract the data from the protocol, only a few(10-20) lines of code do this part, and it's clean and simple with xpt at this point, so why spend many days rewriting already working simple code? Once Jabber is humming along smoothly, and I get time to play again, I'll definately be taking a second look at this though, since I'd really like it ;-) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 18:06:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25114 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:06:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25111 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:06:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:06:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Letters) In-Reply-To: <001c01be90c2$5d8f9a60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > You are evil.. You now much die.. (Jer finds himself suddenly SOAKING > wet).. *wipes face off* Next time I'll come prepared :) > What they're not telling you is DOM actually standard for the 'Demonic > Object Model'. ;-P Hmm... I always thought it was Dirty Obfuscated Methods? *g* Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 19:15:55 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25705 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:15:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25701 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:15:52 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA12262 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA10574 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA15752 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id PAA15743 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:42:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: FW: [JDEV] license Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be90e4$617a49a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org -----Original Message----- From: Vidyut Luther Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 2:52 PM To: Thomas Charron Subject: RE: [JDEV] license hi i've been trying to unsubscrbe to this newsletter for the longest time.. exactly how do i do that ? i lost the majordomo greeting i got. Vidyut Luther sPLiT242 on Effnet #newjersey #linux.com http://www.linuxpowered.com http://everything.linuxpowered.com http://www.linux.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 19:20:52 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25867 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:20:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25864 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:20:48 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id CAA13258 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:43:45 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA13561; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:15:00 +0300 Message-ID: <37264668.5D7EB955@iname.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:21:13 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Be slow... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hey, slow down a minute, I'm not used to get 41+6 messages in one connection ;) From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 19:21:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25883 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:21:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25880 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:21:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:21:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: FW: [JDEV] license In-Reply-To: <000001be90e4$617a49a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I took care of this for him... There's been a few majordomo problems of late, but that will all dissappear when we move to mailman in the next month sometime(and move to a newer better server also!). Jer On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vidyut Luther > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 2:52 PM > To: Thomas Charron > Subject: RE: [JDEV] license > > > hi > i've been trying to unsubscrbe to this newsletter for the longest time.. > exactly how do i do that ? i lost the majordomo greeting i got. > > > Vidyut Luther > sPLiT242 on Effnet #newjersey #linux.com > http://www.linuxpowered.com > http://everything.linuxpowered.com > http://www.linux.com > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 19:26:47 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25989 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:26:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25986 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:26:43 -0500 Received: from galtgulch (jonlin06.hilander.com [207.96.113.103]) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with SMTP id TAA27232 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:26:24 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990427191904.029d4290@chimera.acm.jhu.edu> X-Sender: cklempay@chimera.acm.jhu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:19:39 -0400 To: jdev@jabber.org From: "Corbett J. Klempay" Subject: Re: FW: [JDEV] license In-Reply-To: References: <000001be90e4$617a49a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org At 07:21 PM 4/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >I took care of this for him... > >There's been a few majordomo problems of late, but that will all >dissappear when we move to mailman in the next month sometime(and move to >a newer better server also!). Yes yes yes! Mailman is where it's at! :) (been running it here for months and months myself! hehe...I even got a mention in the docs :) CJK From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 20:31:18 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26565 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:31:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26561 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:31:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12939 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:35:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:35:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: Jabber Development Subject: [JDEV] Jabber distribution test.. In-Reply-To: <000001be90e4$617a49a0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I have heard of some bugs in the build process. Automake really has two modes, one for developers, and one for end-users. If you are able to compile straight from the CVS sources, then you have nothing to worry about. I have taken the latest sources and performed a good ole 'make dist' which produces a tar.gz file which the end-user would normally download and compile. For all those people without autoconf/automake/libtool, it would be great if you could download it and see if it compiles correctly. http://olaf.nick.org/jabber/jabber-0.6.tar.gz Currently the sources would like to have the pthreads library installed, but it should work without them. If people could test that out as well.. Thanks, Nick nkirsch@olaf.nick.org From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 23:43:47 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27206 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:43:47 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-58.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.187]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27202 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:43:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01550 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:42:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:42:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] JabberBox => xrouter Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'd like to know what everyone thinks about renaming JabberBox to "xrouter"? For those that don't know exactly what JabberBox does, it's a simple XML based routing function that transfers chunks of XML data from one connection to another, and is at the heart of Jabber's networking. It seems that the purpose JabberBox serves for Jabber is of value to other projects and outside of Jabber. It wouldn't be to difficult to generalize it so that it can be used seperately from Jabber. The only visible changes would be the renaming, all the functionality is the same. Beyond that, xrouter would probably grow into it's own mini-distribution with a usage guide, man page, and installation process. Since it also is the main storage node for configuration data for transports, it could easily grow in the future to become a simple system-wide XML based "registry" for apps that use it, expanding the current one-way config data passing into a two-way storage process. But that's not critical for Jabber and can be left for the future as the need presents itself. If nobody is opposed to this I'd like to get things renamed before 0.6. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Tue Apr 27 23:57:09 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27313 for jdev-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:57:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from hawthorne.com (host-216-76-249-153.pns.bellsouth.net [216.76.249.153]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27310 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:57:05 -0500 Received: from hawthorne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawthorne.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00620 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:57:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199904280357.WAA00620@hawthorne.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:57:47 -0500 (CDT) From: dsmith@ai.uwf.edu Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Lette rs) To: jdev@jabber.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > En-route, shipping overnight via CVS :) Oh boy! :) > And here's the reasons I haven't started it yet: complexity... The DOM is > overly-complex so that it can handle ANY XML data for ANY purpose. Here > within Jabber we only have one set of data and one purpose, so there is a > large amount of overhead and extra work in the DOM that is not needed. Agreed. At this stage of the game, let's just get something working. :) 'Nuff said. So, as soon as you (all) get the comments in, I'll start documenting. I've already done some more perusal of the lib/ (which is where I'll start my efforts) and things are starting to fall into place. Just out of curiosity though, what does jpair and xpt stand for? As for the DOM, I'm going to take a few evenings this next week and see if I can't hack out simple C implementation of the Core. It'll be scheduled as a low priority thread, to be sure, but I got a feeling that we're really going to need something at the client-lib level..even if it's a DOM wrapper to the jpair/xpt stuff... Someday I want to write that ICQ transport..and a QT client...and...anyway.. :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 00:12:49 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27452 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:12:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27448 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:12:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id AAA29940 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:12:39 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] JabberBox => xrouter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I think it's a good idea...'xrouter' is a much more intuitive name, given what the program actually does. JabberBox might sound cooler, but I think xrouter is the smarter choice :) Good idea! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > I'd like to know what everyone thinks about renaming JabberBox to > "xrouter"? > > For those that don't know exactly what JabberBox does, it's a simple XML > based routing function that transfers chunks of XML data from one > connection to another, and is at the heart of Jabber's networking. > > It seems that the purpose JabberBox serves for Jabber is of value to other > projects and outside of Jabber. It wouldn't be to difficult to generalize > it so that it can be used seperately from Jabber. The only visible changes > would be the renaming, all the functionality is the same. Beyond that, > xrouter would probably grow into it's own mini-distribution with a usage > guide, man page, and installation process. > > Since it also is the main storage node for configuration data for > transports, it could easily grow in the future to become a simple > system-wide XML based "registry" for apps that use it, expanding the > current one-way config data passing into a two-way storage process. But > that's not critical for Jabber and can be left for the future as the need > presents itself. > > If nobody is opposed to this I'd like to get things renamed before 0.6. > > Jer > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 00:43:16 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27644 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:43:16 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-58.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.187]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27640 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:43:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01703 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:42:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:42:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Client Lib & Associated Thoughts (And Many Capital Lette rs) In-Reply-To: <199904280357.WAA00620@hawthorne.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > So, as soon as you (all) get the comments in, I'll start documenting. > I've already done some more perusal of the lib/ (which is where I'll > start my efforts) and things are starting to fall into place. Just out > of curiosity though, what does jpair and xpt stand for? jpair used to be just "pair" but that conflicted with something in C++ so I did a search/replace... so it's really just "Jabber's Pair" I guess. xpt stands for XML Parsed Tree, really corny I know, but I needed something simple and didn't want to call it xml_ anything since that might conflict with an innocent app using the lib... > As for the DOM, I'm going to take a few evenings this next week and see > if I can't hack out simple C implementation of the Core. It'll be > scheduled as a low priority thread, to be sure, but I got a feeling > that we're really going to need something at the client-lib level..even > if it's a DOM wrapper to the jpair/xpt stuff... Actually, I had that in mind when I made xpt, the possiblities of building some simple C functions for DOM stuff that utilize xpt in the background to store the tree in memory. I just never developed the need for the extra DOM layer, but it might be important for non-server stuff which I haven't thought heavily about yet. > Someday I want to write that ICQ transport..and a QT > client...and...anyway.. :) Doctor! Doctor! I think he's coming down with the Jabber fever! Hehe... don't worry, a few of us are quite infected, *g*. I should really get back to coding now =) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 01:55:29 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28017 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:55:29 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-58.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.187]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28014 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:55:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04068 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:55:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:55:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber distribution test.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I have heard of some bugs in the build process. Automake really has two > modes, one for developers, and one for end-users. If you are able to > compile straight from the CVS sources, then you have nothing to worry > about. > > I have taken the latest sources and performed a good ole 'make dist' which > produces a tar.gz file which the end-user would normally download and > compile. For all those people without autoconf/automake/libtool, it would > be great if you could download it and see if it compiles correctly. > > http://olaf.nick.org/jabber/jabber-0.6.tar.gz Worked great on a basic RH5.2 install... "./configure;make" How does this sound for "make install"? /usr/local/jabber README (explains basic get-up-and-running and references docs folder and jabber.org for more info) jabber.conf /bin xrouter jabber.transport jabber start (shell script to start xrouter and jabber.transport) /logs xrouter.log jabber.log /docs LICENSE extending/ OVERVIEW AUTHORS /usr/local/man/* man pages(or stubs at least) for xrouter, jabber.transport, and jabber My whole goal for 0.6 is to have an installable and mostly functional distro for end users(tech users that is). Something that modules, transports, and clients can start to be built against :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 03:09:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA28300 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 03:09:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from olaf.nick.org (nkirsch@nicholas-kirsch2.ups.edu [209.181.136.247]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA28297 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 03:09:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (nkirsch@localhost) by olaf.nick.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14924 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:13:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:13:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicholas M. Kirsch" To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber distribution test.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > /usr/local/jabber > README (explains basic get-up-and-running and references > docs folder and jabber.org for more info) > jabber.conf > /bin > xrouter > jabber.transport > jabber > start (shell script to start xrouter and jabber.transport) > /logs > xrouter.log > jabber.log > /docs > LICENSE > extending/ > OVERVIEW > AUTHORS > /usr/local/man/* > man pages(or stubs at least) for xrouter, jabber.transport, and jabber > Hmm. I like it, but I also would like to see it partially conform to the "standard" that seems to be existing in most packages. Notably, a tree looking like this : /usr/local/jabber README /bin (clients) /sbin (xrouter, transports, and scripts ) /lib (libraries? currently they are all static, so this maybe unnecessary) /include (most likely unnecessary at this point as well) /man (yup) /share (not sure what the distinction is between this and the next one) /etc (but i do believe that the jabber.conf should be stored in one of them) /logs (not necessarily conforming, but i like logs better than var) I like the idea of putting all the files under one tree, rather than putting the man pages into a central directory. Most systems already have several different man paths, and although it may be trickier for a user to add the path, if they would want (heaven forbid) to delete jabber, it would be easy to do so. Let me know what you think of that. Nick nkirsch@olaf.nick.org From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 04:42:56 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28758 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:42:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain (modem-0283.rns.tamu.edu [165.91.65.90]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28755 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:42:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (temas@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29413 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 03:44:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: temas owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 03:44:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Temas X-Sender: temas@localhost.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Lurker Steps Forward Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well I talked on this list for a while when it first started, and then I lurked for a long time mainly due to school and other projects. A long while back there was talk about the AIM transport. I work a lot with aim and libfaim because I code on two aim clients (gtkfaim and the yet released bullseye). I was beginning to picture the transport in my head because I don't think it would be that hard to quickly put together but there is one problem. AIM believes that each user has a single connection. To connect to aim your first must connect to an authorizer type facility and login, then you get tossed over to a new IP that acts as your server. Once all that is complete you are actually online. This makes it slightly difficult for the transport to handle multiple users. I have thought of a few solutions to this and thought I would throw them out here before I start coding because each requires a different implementation. 1) Have the transport open a new connection for each users duration of activity. This is possible with the library I use (libfaim) and I believe with the TOC protocol, but this is going to cause a lot of connections to open, especially on a large system. I see this as a last ditch effort to get a working transport. 2) Have the transport open multiple connections to AIM but set a timeout on them so that they will die off and not just idle taking up sockets ont he server. There are a few things that have to be watched in this scenario, the connection rate cannont be too fast or AIM get's mad and will not let you connect for a while. Also this would require some sort of password storing so that the user does not get angry and have to enter their password every time they wish to relogin to AIM to send a message (although some security nuts like myself really wouldn't mind). It's late and my mind is kind of warped, so this is the best I could come up with. The only other problem that crossed my mind (I remember this in old mailing list conversation) is the problem of allowing jabber users to create a new aim user. This is less of a problem than is with ICQ because AIM does not a have a direct facility to signup other than the web page, so it seems that the user would have to create a user on their own to be able to use this. Anyway, these are my warped thoughts and I would really appreciate comments and especially new ideas for the connections to AIM. If I'm stepping on anyones toes or others would like to help me be sure to contact me. --Thomas Muldowney From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 09:27:46 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29593 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:27:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29589 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:27:41 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id QAA05886 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:50:42 +0200 (TSI) Received: from iname.com by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA13858; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:21:45 +0300 Message-ID: <372708AE.DA2E0A1E@iname.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:10:06 +0300 From: Waster_ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Sending files through server... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I have ideas about sending files through server..... 1) Request : User jenny wants to send file named "filename.ext" sized 10 Kbytes (10240 bytes) jenny Hey, I'm sending you this file srgh5we3d request 10240 #thread should be a mixed form of unix time (only seconds), file name, and size, so that it wouldn't be the same as other file sends etc. # In EXT: # type can be "fast" or "replied". # In "replied" form, sender waits acknowledgement after each packet sent # In "fast" form, sender sends each packet without waiting for acknowledgement # packet can be "request", "end", "cancel" or a number showing the number of the packet # # size is the file's size in bytes 2) Re: Request : User alican accepts file alican srgh5we3d request true|false # thread is the same as the above # # In EXT: # accept can be "true" or "false"... # part is still "request" # filename is sent back for avoiding problems (there can still be the same thread) 3) Send: User jenny begins sending jenny Sending file: filename.ext srgh5we3d 1 File data here... # thread is the same... # # In EXT: # packet: the number of the packet being sent. In every packet, this will be increased... # name: Am I too afraid of thread problems? # Filedata: The data in the packet 4) Acknowledgement : User alican acknowledges the packet. Only in "replied" form... alican srgh5we3d 1 Number_Of_Bytes # I won't say "thread is the same" # # In EXT: # packet: The packet number that receiver acknowledges # name: OK, I'm too afraid of thread problems... # # Number_Of_Bytes: Number of bytes received in the packet. Must be an unsigned-integer. If it isn't equal with sent # bytes or if it's non-unsigned-integer, packet would simply re-sent 5) End of filesend: User jenny says, it finished sending.... jenny srgh5we3d end 10240 # packet would be "end" showing file is complete... # size and filename are sent again. If the receiver thinks he/she's getting abc.txt, but # in the last packet, he/she sees that it's another file, he/she simply kills the sender ;) 6) Cancel sending/receiving : If one of the clients cancel sending/receiving then should send this message: jenny|alican srgh5we3d cancel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES: - Sender will decide packet size. It desn't have to be the same in each packet. - If a packet acknowledgement is wrong (the recipient recieved wrong num of bytes), simply the packet would be resent... - Sender can send packets randomly: like 1-4-2-3... But the problem is how the recipient would solve the puzzle? ;) Ok, Ok, just a joke, sender should send packets in order. I don't wanna get mad in front of "ncedit.exe" (tm). - If a packet number is received twice then the recipient should replace the old packet with the new one... - In "replied" form, the sender shouldn't send new packet until it gets acknowledgement. - In replied form, recipient SHOULDN'T append last packet to the file until sender sends another packet. Because if the packet is wrong received, sender would resend it... -------------- QUESTIONS: 1) Who are Jenny and Alican? From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 10:24:26 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29917 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:24:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29914 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:24:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:24:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber distribution test.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Hmm. I like it, but I also would like to see it partially conform to the > "standard" that seems to be existing in most packages. Notably, a tree > looking like this : Agreed... I was assuming what I knew about the "standard" based on the hundreds, err, thousands of app installs I've done over the years across various platforms :) > /usr/local/jabber > > README > /bin (clients) > /sbin (xrouter, transports, and scripts ) Ok, even better, I like the seperation, especially when both bin areas start to grow. > /lib (libraries? currently they are all static, so this maybe unnecessary) > /include (most likely unnecessary at this point as well) Yeah, everything is static so that's not needed. Maybe in the future with the client lib or something similiar though. > /man (yup) > /share (not sure what the distinction is between this and the next one) > /etc (but i do believe that the jabber.conf should be stored in one of them) I definately like /etc instead. > /logs (not necessarily conforming, but i like logs better than var) Yes, /logs is happy... but we'll probably need a /var for the time being, so that mod_basic can store/spool things on the filesystem(offline messages, rosters, etc) > I like the idea of putting all the files under one tree, rather than > putting the man pages into a central directory. Most systems already have > several different man paths, and although it may be trickier for a user to > add the path, if they would want (heaven forbid) to delete jabber, it > would be easy to do so. Well, Jabber will be updated frequently, so it's probably best to keep it as seperate as possible. But I'm not sure about the man pages part... I don't think it's a big deal to litter up /usr/local/man with this stuff, it really doesn't take up space or effect functionality of anything, so I don't see a problem with it... either way I guess it's no biggie since it's configurable via ./configure :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 10:49:12 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA30093 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA30090 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Lurker Steps Forward In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > Well I talked on this list for a while when it first started, and then I > lurked for a long time mainly due to school and other projects. Yes, awesome, glad to see you back en-force! ;) > A long while back there was talk about the AIM transport. I work a lot > with aim and libfaim because I code on two aim clients (gtkfaim and the > yet released bullseye). I was beginning to picture the transport in my > head because I don't think it would be that hard to quickly put together > but there is one problem. AIM believes that each user has a single > connection. To connect to aim your first must connect to an authorizer > type facility and login, then you get tossed over to a new IP that acts > as your server. Once all that is complete you are actually online. > This makes it slightly difficult for the transport to handle multiple > users. I have thought of a few solutions to this and thought I would > throw them out here before I start coding because each requires a > different implementation. > > 1) Have the transport open a new connection for each users duration of > activity. This is possible with the library I use (libfaim) and I believe > with the TOC protocol, but this is going to cause a lot of connections to > open, especially on a large system. I see this as a last ditch effort to > get a working transport. Why would this be last-ditch? Seems like a logical way to go, and not all Jabber users will be using the AIM transport, and the AIM connections would drop when the Jabber user for that connection goes offline... doesn't sound like the outgoing connections would get TOO out of hand for most purposes :) > 2) Have the transport open multiple connections to AIM but set a timeout > on them so that they will die off and not just idle taking up sockets ont > he server. There are a few things that have to be watched in this > scenario, the connection rate cannont be too fast or AIM get's mad and > will not let you connect for a while. Does this connection-rate blocking thing act based on the the source IP and userid tried, source IP and "failure", or just on source IP? This could be a problem for a busy transport... I'm wondering, are there multiple auth servers(dns round robin or the like) and do you get rejected by one or all of them when this happens? > Also this would require some sort > of password storing so that the user does not get angry and have to enter > their password every time they wish to relogin to AIM to send a message > (although some security nuts like myself really wouldn't mind). Yes, that is an evil aspect of transports, if you store the password to make it convenient for the user, you end up having a large DB of passwords and become a target. I wonder if some of the crypto stuff can't help out here... Also, a fairly simple solution could be using the query proposal from a few weeks ago, where the transport would query the client software for the credentials, so the passwords would be stored on the client(although I don't like making the two rely on each other). Based on the security and ecommerce products I've seen, they all seem to be happy with encrypting the data everywhere, and using a single private key to decrypt it in ram as it's needed. Then all you have to keep safe is the private key which is a common thing anymore. > It's late and my mind is kind of warped, so this is the best I could come > up with. The only other problem that crossed my mind (I remember this in > old mailing list conversation) is the problem of allowing jabber users to > create a new aim user. This is less of a problem than is with ICQ because > AIM does not a have a direct facility to signup other than the web page, > so it seems that the user would have to create a user on their own to be > able to use this. Anyway, these are my warped thoughts and I would really > appreciate comments and especially new ideas for the connections to AIM. > If I'm stepping on anyones toes or others would like to help me be sure to > contact me. Thanks for jumping back in here... an AIM transport, or even a prototype one that kind of works, would be a major bonus. I had one working at one point but it was ridiculous :) I'd like to create some sort of "specification" for how a transport would work, what it needs to understand, how it can approach the translation and user interaction, etc... Actually building a transport while doing this would help tons. Maybe I'll find a few minutes and get something started and we can go from there. Also, let me know if/when you want CVS access, I'd be happy provide space for the code ;) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 12:10:07 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA30544 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:10:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA30536 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:09:34 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA08279 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id MAA06856 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA10763 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA10751 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:25:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Lurker Steps Forward Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:12:22 -0400 Message-ID: <000801be9189$84370d20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Temas > Subject: [JDEV] Lurker Steps Forward > Well I talked on this list for a while when it first started, and then I > lurked for a long time mainly due to school and other projects. A long > while back there was talk about the AIM transport. I work a lot with aim > and libfaim because I code on two aim clients (gtkfaim and the yet > released bullseye). Ahh.. Your exactly the type we'd need to code the AIM transport. ;-P Welcome to the land of the living! > 1) Have the transport open a new connection for each users duration of > activity. This is possible with the library I use (libfaim) and I believe > with the TOC protocol, but this is going to cause a lot of connections to > open, especially on a large system. I see this as a last ditch effort to > get a working transport. This is how I had figured that it would need to be. Unless either of the protocols supports a 'server' connection (Which would be really bad, so if they do, poohey on them), it would HAVE to be that way.. Here IS something that concerns me, though.. Do they (AOL) keep track and limit the number of AOL users from a given IP? Anotherwards, are they going to start killing connections when they notice 100 users from the SAME IP? > 2) Have the transport open multiple connections to AIM but set a timeout > on them so that they will die off and not just idle taking up sockets ont > he server. There are a few things that have to be watched in this > scenario, the connection rate cannont be too fast or AIM get's mad and > will not let you connect for a while. Also this would require some sort > of password storing so that the user does not get angry and have to enter > their password every time they wish to relogin to AIM to send a message > (although some security nuts like myself really wouldn't mind). Do you have any hard numbers on the connection rate that is allowed? This could be a problem if hundreds of users try to connect over a period of 10 minutes or so. We could have the transport stagger new connections, putting new ones in a 'queue' of sorts to connect. It could then sendsome sortof status message to the jabber user to say they are now aliased onto AOL via Jabber.. > It's late and my mind is kind of warped, so this is the best I could come > up with. The only other problem that crossed my mind (I remember this in > old mailing list conversation) is the problem of allowing jabber users to > create a new aim user. This is less of a problem than is with ICQ because > AIM does not a have a direct facility to signup other than the web page, > so it seems that the user would have to create a user on their own to be > able to use this. Anyway, these are my warped thoughts and I would really > appreciate comments and especially new ideas for the connections to AIM. > If I'm stepping on anyones toes or others would like to help me be sure to > contact me. Actually, the user creation page can be passed the data via a perl script via an HTTP GET, which we could then parse out.. Ok, so it's a hack.. ;-P From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 14:05:37 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA31149 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:05:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain (modem-1659.rns.tamu.edu [165.91.70.186]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA31146 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:05:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (temas@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31001 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:07:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: temas owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:07:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Temas X-Sender: temas@localhost.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] AIM Connection Limits Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'm going to talk to some other people today about the connection limits and see if we can figure out if it is IP based or what. The most I have ever tried from one IP is about 5 when doing masquerading. Those were all with different clients so they passed different cookies to the authorizing server. I'll see what I can do and try to post some results up here by tonight. --Thomas Muldowney From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 20:00:46 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00013 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:00:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00010 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:00:38 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA11538 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id TAA09955 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA08133 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id QAA08122 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:10:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:57:31 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01be86b1$07f0af60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I've got a silly question.. Why are transports communicating with jabberbox the way they are? Why not make the transport<->jabberbox protocol more like the client<->transport prototol, but use instead of ?? I've been messing with the perl XML::Parser module, and in order to parse messages, I need to basically catch the Char data within the default handler becouse it's within the ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:02:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05240 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:02:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:02:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Transport Communication.. In-Reply-To: <001c01be86b1$07f0af60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Hahaha! Deja-vu! http://jabber.org/developers/archive/9904/msg00077.html The funny thing is that I almost responded again :) Jer On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > I've got a silly question.. > > Why are transports communicating with jabberbox the way they are? Why not > make the transport<->jabberbox protocol more like the client<->transport > prototol, but use instead of ?? > > I've been messing with the perl XML::Parser module, and in order to parse > messages, I need to basically catch the Char data within the default handler > becouse it's within the it..). Why do it this way? > > -- > Thomas Charron > United Parcel Service > Northeast Region > "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Wed Apr 28 21:25:49 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00545 for jdev-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:25:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00540 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:25:31 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id VAA01903 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field2.ups.com [153.2.0.50]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id VAA01891 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere2.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA03738 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere2.telecom.ups.com (8.8.7/UPS) with SMTP id LAA03717 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:49:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Zabber.. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:36:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01be868c$9d8d9e40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: <004c01be86ee$167bc0a0$cf6dbfa8@troz> Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I'd check it in now. It can't hurt, and THIS way, if you get to a point whereyou need to scrap something, you can revert to where you want to. That's the wonders of CVS.. ;-P You can actually look at the changes version to version of a given file. You can also 'backout' changes.. -- Thomas Charron United Parcel Service Northeast Region "Moving at the speed of a T3 Trunk Line!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org [mailto:owner-jdev@jabber.org]On Behalf Of > Michael T. Nygard > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 11:15 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. > > > I'd love to get JabberBean under public CVS. First, though, I'd like your > opinion. At this point, it has much of the protocol framework in > place, as > well as event management. It doesn't have the full protocol implemented, > however, and no GUI is in place yet. Would you rather I waited until its > farther along, or is it worth checking in at this early stage? > > Cheers, > -Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeremie Miller > To: Jabber Development > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Zabber.. > > > > > Are we going to be adding zabber to the CVS tree under clients? Just > > > something that I wasn't sure if was addressed as of yet.. It may be > usefull > > > being there, as it will now also have the Tcl/TK XML parser, which > people > > > may find useful for Tcl transports.. > > > > I'd be happy to! If anyone else wants CVS space for their > Jabber-related > > project, just let me know! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jer > > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 01:46:09 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA01447 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:46:09 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-06.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.135]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01444 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:46:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05441 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:46:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] STATUS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org ==> DR0.6 (Weekend of May 1) Outstanding issues before release: -> Update release docs, READMEs, configuring, using, etc Progress is being made, slowly, but I'll find an hour or two somewhere and finish this up. -> Manpages Have some excellent stubs contributed, need to edit them and commit them yet. -> CLI Client update, messages, roster, status, etc... I'm also working on this, logging in and messages work, status will come for sure, not sure I'll get rosters working by the 1st. -> ./configure; make; make install for the works Coming along nicely, install to /usr/local/jabber -> mod_basic working? Needs some more work and testing yet, this weekend -> Win32 client? Thomas is working on this, yum! -> Testing, testing, testing! As always! ==> DR0.7 (May) -> Full Manpages and Docs -> Client Lib spec/base -> Sample transport structure/code -> mod_mysql? -> Querying -> Perl modules(structure)? -> AIM prototype transport? ==> DR0.8 (Juneish) -> Threading? -> ICQ/AIM/etc transports -> Full CLI architecture ==> Future -> Threads, pools, IO revamp -> File, URL, media transfers, streaming From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 09:45:06 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA03298 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:45:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03295 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:45:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:45:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Last call: renaming jabberbox to xrouter Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Unless someone has a reason not to or other suggestion on this topic, I'll rename JabberBox to xrouter today... Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 14:56:24 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04695 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:56:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain (modem-1303.rns.tamu.edu [165.91.69.86]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04692 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:56:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (temas@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20582 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:57:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: temas owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:57:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Temas X-Sender: temas@localhost.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] AIM Connection Limits Looked Over Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well I tested up to 10 users from my IP then talked with another guy that says his whole office goes through one IP to AIM and they have no problems what so ever. I also tested the connection speeds and it seems to only be limited to the Screenname at a rate of about 15/hour then you have to chill out for a while before it lets you start up again. Not sure how long you have to wait, I went to sleep during that period. Going to have company this weekend, but when I get the chance I'll begin to write a prototype AIM transport using a single connection to the aim server for each user that persists throughout their online connection to the jabber server. --Thomas Muldowney From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 15:22:00 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04866 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:22:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04863 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:21:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:21:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] AIM Connection Limits Looked Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Awesome, very good news, thanks! Jer On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Temas wrote: > Well I tested up to 10 users from my IP then talked with another guy that > says his whole office goes through one IP to AIM and they have no problems > what so ever. I also tested the connection speeds and it seems to only be > limited to the Screenname at a rate of about 15/hour then you have to > chill out for a while before it lets you start up again. Not sure how > long you have to wait, I went to sleep during that period. Going to have > company this weekend, but when I get the chance I'll begin to write a > prototype AIM transport using a single connection to the aim server for > each user that persists throughout their online connection to the jabber > server. > > --Thomas Muldowney > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 16:16:18 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05175 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:16:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA05172 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:16:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:16:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Again: renaming JabberBox Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I didn't really like xrouter or anything *router all that much, just didn't jive with me, but I couldn't think of anything better... But, Sean came to the rescue and suggested "ether", which became "etherx" to represent "network shared XML" of some sort :) It works out nicely since transports "plug in" to etherx and pass "packets" around on it. So, I'll rename it to etherx tonight unless someone has a better suggestion. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 16:35:22 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05348 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:35:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05345 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:35:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id QAA16206 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:34:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:34:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Again: renaming JabberBox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org You might want to be careful with that...Kingston has a line of Ethernet cards called the EtheRX...so I'm not sure if we'd be in trouble of trademark issues or not... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "A commune is where people join together to share their lack of wealth." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > I didn't really like xrouter or anything *router all that much, just > didn't jive with me, but I couldn't think of anything better... > > But, Sean came to the rescue and suggested "ether", which became "etherx" > to represent "network shared XML" of some sort :) It works out nicely > since transports "plug in" to etherx and pass "packets" around on it. > > So, I'll rename it to etherx tonight unless someone has a better > suggestion. > > Jer > > > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 16:40:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05380 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:40:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05377 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:40:01 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA00158 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:03:10 +0200 (TSI) Received: from [212.31.3.87] by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA14612; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:34:13 +0300 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:39:51 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Again: renaming JabberBox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > So, I'll rename it to etherx tonight unless someone has a better > suggestion. etherBox or something? i really like the word "box" in a router ;) bye, disqk MICROS~1 is not the answer. MICROS~1 is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 17:34:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05708 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:34:44 -0500 Received: from ziggy.jeremie.com (jer@cscd-02-47.dialup.netins.net [209.152.71.176]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05704 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:34:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by ziggy.jeremie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06355 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:34:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ziggy.jeremie.com: jer owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:34:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Again: renaming JabberBox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > You might want to be careful with that...Kingston has a line of Ethernet > cards called the EtheRX...so I'm not sure if we'd be in trouble of > trademark issues or not... I saw that.. but after a patent/trademark search for etherx resulting in nada, and the fact that it's hardware and this is software, I'm not worried... It's fun to say too :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 18:20:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05932 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:20:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from squishy.ameth.org (shepard@squishy.ameth.org [206.152.121.49]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05929 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:20:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (shepard@localhost) by squishy.ameth.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA07550 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:31:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:31:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Chase Phillips To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Contact Methods Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org What type of paradigm is being used to create the sending/receiving of rosters and the makeup of each individual roster? Is there a mailing list message relating to this? Saw nothing on the web site regarding the Jabber roster structure. I am interested in that there are multiple ways to contact one person (services to that person) and jabber servers/transports can be used in each one of those contact "methods". I would like to see inside the messaging window individual options to contact through various ways (Direct->Jabber, Direct->ICQ, Direct->Pager, etc). Does this conflict with the Simple Client idea, or, since this information is sent in a roster retrieve and interpreted only by the Jabber Server, will this add to the Simple Client, making it more powerful? If we can centralize each contact method to one roster entry, instead of having multiple roster entries for each, reaching a person would become much more intuitive (and our rosters would be much more simpler). Any ideas? Advance apologies if this has already been hashed out. regards, Chase Phillips -- shepard at ameth.org ][ Only you will know http://www.ameth.org/ ][ if I proofread this From owner-jdev@jabber.org Thu Apr 29 21:40:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06634 for jdev-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:40:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from chimera.acm.jhu.edu (mail@chimera.acm.jhu.edu [128.220.223.63]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06631 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:40:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (cklempay@localhost) by chimera.acm.jhu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/asi-redhat) with ESMTP id VAA02543 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:40:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Corbett J. Klempay" To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: [JDEV] Peter Gutmann's response Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:28:30 (NZST) From: Peter Gutmann To: cklempay@chimera.acm.jhu.edu Subject: Re: cryptlib license question... Hi, >I am working on adding digital signature support to an in-development instant >messaging program called Jabber (www.jabber.org). I'm actually doing this as a >project for my crypto class right now...you can see the brief proposal for it >at http://www.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay/mod_digsig/cryptoproposal.html Anyway, I >was getting frustrated the other when I was working on it, as I was having to >develop a bunch of the utility code (a PRNG, prime number generation, etc). I >went looking for good PRNG code, and came across cryptlib...wow. It's extra >cool because of some of the key management (like eventually we were going to >have to add code to our Jabber servers to store persistent user info (like >keys) in an RDBMS). The thing I was realizing this morning, though: if I were >to use cryptlib to implement these things, it would prevent us from >distributing Jabber under the GPL, correct? Well, you couldn't distribute the cryptlib code under the GPL because cryptlib is currently available under a license which is less restrictive than the GPL, and I don't really want to have it infected by the GPL (that is, I don't want to have cryptlib fall under the GPL). However there's nothing to stop you from distributing Jabber under the GPL and cryptlib as is, for all intents and purposes it'll be the same thing (it's free for pretty much anyone to use). Peter. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 01:42:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07460 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:42:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07457 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:42:51 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id BAA24603 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id BAA24556 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id NAA02537 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id NAA02533 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:38:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Good XML article.. Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:26:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be9265$5ceada80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I thought some people would find this funny.. I was just flipping thru May 11th's Intelligent Enterprise (You've probrably never heard of it unless you buy lotsa stuff for a large company..). Fringe benny of working for a large company.. Free magazines.. ;-P Anyway, this months was dedicated to XML is business to business E-Commerce. One artcle was showing an example of using XML and a DTD for plays, showing how you can encode the entire play in XML, and different tools you could then develope/use with this type od embeded data. The LAST paragraph has this: --- What sort of applications could you build to take advantage oúthe XML encoding? Here are some exam- ples that demonstrate how XML can let you use the same data to serve different customers: + A formatting application could print the play as a script for use by performers. A slightly different formatter print the play for easy reading in book Format. + A program that incorporates voice synthesis could read various parts of the play so that performers could rehearse their parts without the need for other human players. + The holodeck of the Starship Enterprise could per- form the entire play using artificially constructed, three- dimensional characters. I know which application I'd like to write. --- I like the last one.. Looks like someone will need to take up a new transport.. Anyone know the LCARS operating system? ;-P From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 01:50:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07521 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:50:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07518 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:50:29 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id BAA01999 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id BAA01869 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA01888 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA01879 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:23:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Cabber.. Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be9252$80e4bb80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Who wants to hear something neato.. ;-P Looks like we'll have 2 different Win32 clients for the 0.6 release.. How? Well, let me tell you.. I've almost gotten cabber to compile on Win32.. ;-P I love Gtk+ under Win32.. ;-P From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 07:19:20 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA08643 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:19:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08640 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:19:15 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id OAA22970 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:42:08 +0200 (TSI) Received: from [212.31.3.129] by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA14921; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:12:59 +0300 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:18:54 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Good XML article.. In-Reply-To: <000001be9265$5ceada80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > + The holodeck of the Starship Enterprise could per- > form the entire play using artificially constructed, three- > dimensional characters. > > I know which application I'd like to write. > --- > > I like the last one.. Looks like someone will need to take up a new > transport.. Anyone know the LCARS operating system? ;-P what is it, Large CARS? :P bye, disqk MICROS~1 is not the answer. MICROS~1 is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 07:21:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA08671 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:21:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08667 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:21:43 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id OAA23088 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:44:49 +0200 (TSI) Received: from [212.31.3.129] by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA14927; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:15:48 +0300 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:21:42 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Cabber.. In-Reply-To: <000001be9252$80e4bb80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > Who wants to hear something neato.. ;-P > Looks like we'll have 2 different Win32 clients for the 0.6 release.. > How? Well, let me tell you.. > > I've almost gotten cabber to compile on Win32.. ;-P really? if you did any code changes, please submit them to the CVS ;) > I love Gtk+ under Win32.. ;-P yeah, but it's kinda slow. bye, disqk MICROS~1 is not the answer. MICROS~1 is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 11:30:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13980 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13976 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:35 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA16462 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA16408 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA27866 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA27861 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Peter Gutmann's response Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:17:25 -0400 Message-ID: <001301be931c$8e605d80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Like I said before, we can distribute both in the same package. Anything in the cryptolib would be one licence, everything else another. We'd need some sort of option to NOT use cryptolib to allow people who agree with the GPL but not his not to use it.. (Ok, it'd be silly, and I'd LOVE to see the reasoning for it, but it should be taken into consideration. Who knows, maybee RMS would want to reject using it for ego reasons..) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Corbett J. Klempay > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 9:40 PM > To: jdev@jabber.org > Subject: [JDEV] Peter Gutmann's response > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:28:30 (NZST) > From: Peter Gutmann > To: cklempay@chimera.acm.jhu.edu > Subject: Re: cryptlib license question... > > Hi, > > >I am working on adding digital signature support to an > in-development instant > >messaging program called Jabber (www.jabber.org). I'm actually > doing this as a > >project for my crypto class right now...you can see the brief > proposal for it > >at > http://www.acm.jhu.edu/> ~cklempay/mod_digsig/cryptoproposal.html Anyway, I > >was getting frustrated the other when I was working on it, as I > was having to > >develop a bunch of the utility code (a PRNG, prime number > generation, etc). I > >went looking for good PRNG code, and came across cryptlib...wow. > It's extra > >cool because of some of the key management (like eventually we > were going to > >have to add code to our Jabber servers to store persistent user > info (like > >keys) in an RDBMS). The thing I was realizing this morning, > though: if I were > >to use cryptlib to implement these things, it would prevent us from > >distributing Jabber under the GPL, correct? > > Well, you couldn't distribute the cryptlib code under the GPL > because cryptlib > is currently available under a license which is less restrictive > than the GPL, > and I don't really want to have it infected by the GPL (that is, > I don't want > to have cryptlib fall under the GPL). However there's nothing to > stop you from > distributing Jabber under the GPL and cryptlib as is, for all intents and > purposes it'll be the same thing (it's free for pretty much > anyone to use). > > Peter. > > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 11:35:37 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14021 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:35:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14018 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:35:34 -0500 Received: from montague (tcnet01-080.houston.texas.net [209.99.82.17]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id KAA04291 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:35:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:35:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Eliot Landrum X-Sender: eliot@montague To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] Cabber.. In-Reply-To: <000001be9252$80e4bb80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: Organization: http://lonestar.texas.net/~landrum/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I love Gtk+ under Win32.. ;-P Gtk+ under windows? What's that look like? Is it easy to port? That sounds really cool! Eliot Landrum elandrum@bigfoot.com From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 11:38:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14042 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:38:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14039 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:38:21 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA24755 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA24680 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA29628 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA29623 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001401be931d$7c7c2d00$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Chase Phillips > Subject: [JDEV] Contact Methods > I am interested in that there are multiple ways to contact one person > (services to that person) and jabber servers/transports can be used in > each one of those contact "methods". I would like to see inside the > messaging window individual options to contact through various ways > (Direct->Jabber, Direct->ICQ, Direct->Pager, etc). Does this conflict > with the Simple Client idea, or, since this information is sent in a > roster retrieve and interpreted only by the Jabber Server, will this add > to the Simple Client, making it more powerful? No reason a client couldn't do this. As a matter of fact, we could have an 'alternate address' list as part of the users status information, and have the transport have a 'fallback' option. > If we can centralize each contact method to one roster entry, instead of > having multiple roster entries for each, reaching a person would become > much more intuitive (and our rosters would be much more simpler). Any > ideas? Advance apologies if this has already been hashed out. I like the idea myself.. ;-P But it shouldn't be required, but an optional implementation within the client. Perhaps a field that states that this address is an alternate for another, such as: jenny 545212@ICQjenny user@jabber.server.com olduser Idea's? Comments? There could also be information stored in status, so when a person adds a user, it would be able to parse out additional addresses for this person and automagically add them as alternates. This would also NOT break clients who didn't support alternate addy's, as the data is stored in , so they'll just look like normal roster entries to dumber clients.. Might get ugly with 20 people with 3 alternate's, though.. Perhaps something like this instead? jenny545212@ICQ user@jabber.server.com olduser This MIGHT be a better way, as dumber clients would now only have one entry, without the alternate contact methods.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 11:49:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14257 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:49:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14252 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:49:18 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA08307 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA08224 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA02669 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA02663 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] Wow, it works.. Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:13 -0400 Message-ID: <001701be931f$2d9bb140$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I just found this out. If youlook at this URL: http://www.jabber.org/download/latest/doc/protocol/server2client.txt Under IE5, it actually allows you to traverse the tree in the window, as it parses it as valid XML code within the browser window.. Ok, well, I found it neat.. ;-P From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 11:53:09 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14320 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:53:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14317 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:53:06 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA22923 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA22880 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id LAA03626 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id LAA03617 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Cabber.. Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:40:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001801be931f$b5895c60$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Actually, it is.. You can just include the glib.lib and gtk.lib into your compile, and makesure you include the glib.dll and gtk.dll with your app.. ;-P > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Eliot Landrum > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 11:36 AM > To: Jabber Development > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Cabber.. > > > > I love Gtk+ under Win32.. ;-P > > > Gtk+ under windows? What's that look like? Is it easy to port? That sounds > really cool! > > Eliot Landrum > elandrum@bigfoot.com > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 12:30:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA14605 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:30:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14602 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:30:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:30:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Contact Methods In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > What type of paradigm is being used to create the sending/receiving of > rosters and the makeup of each individual roster? Is there a mailing list > message relating to this? Saw nothing on the web site regarding the > Jabber roster structure. It can be a bit confusing, I'll try to explain... (note to self, need FAQ :) > I am interested in that there are multiple ways to contact one person > (services to that person) and jabber servers/transports can be used in > each one of those contact "methods". I would like to see inside the > messaging window individual options to contact through various ways > (Direct->Jabber, Direct->ICQ, Direct->Pager, etc). Does this conflict > with the Simple Client idea, or, since this information is sent in a > roster retrieve and interpreted only by the Jabber Server, will this add > to the Simple Client, making it more powerful? Ok, this is what's unique about Jabber... If you are a Jabber user, other Jabber users communicate to you via Jabber. If those other users are on ICQ/AIM/other, they communicate to the transport, which then communicates to you via Jabber. So, in the end, all the communications to you are via Jabber. There is no "multiple ways" to contact a Jabber user, there is only Jabber :) But, where it can be confusing, is that in your roster you can have non-jabber users listed, such as 2134@icq or joejoe@yahoo. Since they are _not_ Jabber users, you can only contact them via their transport(icq/yahoo/etc). If they ever become Jabber users, they will then have a Jabber ID and you'll communicate with them via that. If I've totally missed the question/statement here, rotten fruit will do to let me know :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 14:24:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15106 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:24:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from squishy.ameth.org (shepard@squishy.ameth.org [206.152.121.49]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15103 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:24:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (shepard@localhost) by squishy.ameth.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18724 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:35:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:35:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Chase Phillips To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods In-Reply-To: <001401be931d$7c7c2d00$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > > No reason a client couldn't do this. As a matter of fact, we could have an > 'alternate address' list as part of the users status information, and have > the transport have a 'fallback' option. > interesting idea. > > Idea's? Comments? There could also be information stored in status, so > when a person adds a user, it would be able to parse out additional > addresses for this person and automagically add them as alternates. This > would also NOT break clients who didn't support alternate addy's, as the > data is stored in , so they'll just look like normal roster entries to > dumber clients.. Might get ugly with 20 people with 3 alternate's, though.. > plain jane, the functionality i'd like to see (and i wouldn't mind working on the design and implementation myself ;) is that with a person in my contact list, a tree view for that entry could pop up with the alternates. i just want to be able to see in that entry for the person (user definable name, but the contact list entry would be a jabber address) the alternate modes of contact, and, if i choose, send a message to that person's pager only. most importantly, i don't want to know the details of what that pager's ID number is or what the pager's phone number is. this would all be defined by the user on the other end (and stored at the server). i'm really infatuated with the Pager transport (may even work on it myself) as I've had experience with sendpage (popular paging program) and creating a gateway to it via the web. > Perhaps something like this instead? > > > jenny number=1/>545212@ICQ > user@jabber.server.com > olduser > > > This MIGHT be a better way, as dumber clients would now only have one > entry, without the alternate contact methods.. > there has to be some way to do this and still keep the client work to a minimum.. Chase Phillips -- shepard at ameth.org ][ Only you will know http://www.ameth.org/ ][ if I proofread this From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 14:37:21 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15194 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:37:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from squishy.ameth.org (shepard@squishy.ameth.org [206.152.121.49]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15191 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:37:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (shepard@localhost) by squishy.ameth.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18857 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:48:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:48:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Chase Phillips To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Contact Methods In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Jeremie wrote: > > It can be a bit confusing, I'll try to explain... (note to self, need FAQ > :) > this would be nice.. but a little more finalization on the roster methods and we're set. > > Ok, this is what's unique about Jabber... If you are a Jabber user, other > Jabber users communicate to you via Jabber. If those other users are on > ICQ/AIM/other, they communicate to the transport, which then communicates > to you via Jabber. So, in the end, all the communications to you are via > Jabber. > btw, brilliant design work done on this project. if everything is done well, we may be able to kiss all of the proprietary internet messaging protocols bye-bye. > There is no "multiple ways" to contact a Jabber user, there is only Jabber > :) > well then, perhaps the idea of a tree view would be in order listing the alternate transports available for that user: +---------------------------------------+ | Contact List | | + Joe Doe (Joe Doe@jabberhost.com) | | - John Doe (John Doe@jabberhost.com) | | |- ICQ (Offline) | | |- Unix Talk (Offline) | | `- Pager (Online) | | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | +---------------------------------------+ with each alternate transport supporting the same functions as the main entry (or definable by the server what functions can be sent to each method when the roster is sent). like i said before, there has to be some way to do this and still keep the client very simple. defining a list of functions for each method and then subtracting the functions that won't work for certain transports would be a straight-laced way, eh? > > But, where it can be confusing, is that in your roster you can have > non-jabber users listed, such as 2134@icq or joejoe@yahoo. Since they are > _not_ Jabber users, you can only contact them via their > transport(icq/yahoo/etc). If they ever become Jabber users, they will > then have a Jabber ID and you'll communicate with them via that. > in this case, there would be an entry for the name, but no jabber user entry.. just the alternate transports. when they do become jabber users, the server updates there entry automagically (similar to sending a message, just alters the database entry for your roster). > > If I've totally missed the question/statement here, rotten fruit will do > to let me know :) > i follow what ur saying about jabber users.. just want a way that i can link all of one person's transports/jabber ID together under one name. it seems very intuitive to be able to communicate with a person in a number of ways, so why don't we use it in the contact list? i can see how a person would say i'm putting the cart before the horse, tho. this could all be saved for a later version, of course.. certainly, let's keep thrashing ideas about, tho. regards, Chase Phillips -- shepard at ameth.org ][ Only you will know http://www.ameth.org/ ][ if I proofread this From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 15:25:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15440 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:25:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (nuts.coginst.uwf.edu [143.88.7.10]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15437 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:25:35 -0500 Received: from hawthorne (atl-qbu-zpl-vty146.as.wcom.net [216.192.213.146]) by nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA13290 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:30:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002d01be93a3$785f5ae0$1e04a8c0@na.com> From: "Dave Smith" To: Subject: [JDEV] Jabber DOM Proposal Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Greetings... I have been doing some serious analysis of the current DOM (jpair/xpt/xpt_pool) combo, and the W3C recommendation of the DOM. I've also been looking at etherx and the jabber transport, trying to understand how they use all of the nifty data structures. Regarding the current DOM, it's unbelievably close to the actual W3C recommendation for a DOM. Of course, the naming conventions are all way different, but the heart of design is essentially the same. :) I suspect that's on purpose. I've been trying to write a DOM according to the spec and have found it to be a little more complicated than I originally anticipated. Actually, it's not so much that the code is difficult to write, I just want to maximize the *performance* and I've been trying different data structures so that traversing the DOM nodes will be fast. Unfortunately, the W3C DOM really isn't optimized for *any* structure(which ensures flexibility in the DOM usage), except a linked list (which is pretty doggone inefficient when you go searching for elements by name). I know, I know, Jer, you said it would be easier just to work with the existing structure...I just like to make sure.. :) While the W3C DOM is handy if you don't know what you're dealing with, I'm now in agreement with all the rest of you that our DOM should be optmized for the task at hand. As such, I would like formally define our DOM so that we can expose it in the client lib and simplify our existing code. Things to keep in mind (will eventually be a proper introduction) 1.) The Jabber protocol is based on a XML *subset*. As such, the W3C DOM really doesn't apply since we don't support all of XML anyway 2.) The Jabber DOM is more interested in organizing the contents of the XML packet than in keeping the contents of packets in sequence. Parent-child relationships are preserved, but the order of multiple child tags (with the same name)within a parent is *not*. DOM Public API types & functions -------------------------------------------------------------- The Jabber DOM shall provide the following opaque data types: 1.) Tag: represents a XML tag; may have sub-tags, attributes, and one (1) datum 2.) Attribute : represents the XML attribute(of the form =) associated with a tag 3.) Datum: represents character data stored between tags To traverse the DOM, the following operations are provided: 1.) hasTag(Tag t, String name) : Integer Desc: Determines if has any subtags which match ; returns number of matching tags 2.) hasAttribute(Tag t, String name) : Boolean Desc: Determines if has any attributes with name of 3.) hasDatum(Tag t) : Boolean Desc: Determines if has any character data 4.) getTag(Tag t, String name) : Tag Desc: Attempt to retrieve first subtag in which matches ; returns NULL if none are found 5.) getNextTagSibling(Tag t) : Tag Desc: Returns any following tags (of same name, at this level in DOM tree); returns NULL if none exist 6.) getPrevTagSibling(Tag t) : Tag Desc: Returns any previous tags (of same name, at this level in DOM tree); returns NULL if none exist 7.) getTagName(Tag t) : String Desc: Returns name of a tag 8.) getTagDatum(Tag t) : Pointer Desc: Returns pointer to tag 's datum; *not* null terminated 9.) getTagDatumSz(Tag t) : Integer Desc: Returns length of tag 's datum segment 10.) getAttribute(Tag t, String name) : String Desc: Returns value of tag 's attribute by name of 11.) putAttribute(Tag t, String name, String value) : void Desc: Adds/replaces attribute with on tag 12.) addTag(Tag parent, Tag child): void Desc: Adds as subtag to ; does *not* replace existing tags 13.) addDatum(Tag t, Pointer datum, Integer datum_sz) : void Desc: Appends to end of 's existing datum; increments 's datum size accordingly 14.) deleteTag(Tag t) : void Desc: Releases , including all attributes, children and datum; use with care 15.) deleteAttribute(Tag t, String name) Desc: Releases attribute associated with DOM Internal representations -------------------------------------------------------------- The Jabber DOM shall use the following internal data structures for the representation of parsed XML: 1.) Node = the equivalent of a XML tag; contains: 1.2) Value : String 1.3) Attribs : AttribTree 1.4) Children : NodeTree 1.5) NextSibling : Node 1.6) PrevSibling : Node 2.) Attrib = the equivalent of a XML tag attribute; contains: 2.1) Name : String 2.2) Value : String 3.) AttribTree = a balanced binary tree (AVL, probably) contains Attribs keyed by Attrib.Name 4.) NodeList = a unordered linked list of Nodes which all have the same name; contains: 4.1) Name : String 4.2) Nodes : Linked List 4.) NodeTree = a balanced binary tree (AVL, again) containing NodeLists; keyed by the NodeList.Name Traversal of these structures shall be accomplished 1.) GetFirstNode(NodeTree n, String name) : Node Desc: Searches the NodeTree for the NodeList containing Nodes with . Returns first node in that list. 2.) GetNextSibling(Node node) : Node Desc: Returns next sibling node 3.) HasSibling(Node node) : Boolean Desc: Determines if a given node has another sibling 4.) AddNode(NodeTree n, Node node) : void Desc: Inserts node into NodeTree at the end of a NodeList for Nodes with this name 5.) AddChildNode(Node parent, Node child) : void Desc: Inserts a into .Children 6.) DeleteNode(Node node) : void Desc: Releases a node's memory (including any child nodes); redirects siblings next/prev pointers 7.) NewAttribute(Node node, String name, String value) : void Desc: Creates a new attribute for with = 8.) GetAttribute(Node node, String name) : Attribute Desc: Returns attribute with matching name, or NULL 9.) GetAttributeValue(Node node, String name) : String Desc: Returns value of an attribute with matching name 10.) DeleteAttribute(Node node, String name) Desc: Releases an attribute's memory The API I have defined below should be sufficient for most parsing tasks. It's also fairly optimized for searching (using AVL trees), so you'll be able to find tags of a certain type (that is with a given name) in O(log n) time. Once you've found those, tags, you're restricted to O(n) traversal. Basically, the DOM sorts tags by name and maintains tags with the same name in a linked list. So, if you're receiving a roster message with this content: abcdavebob, you'll get the following: tag tree: Tag(roster, Children(add, delete)) Child(add) has linked list = Tag(add, Datum(abc)), Tag(add, Datum(dave)) Child(delete) has linked list = Tag(delete, Datum(bob)) This setup will allow you to quickly isolate all the tags in a packet and process them iteratively. I realize this representation is mildly redundant. If you read on, you'll find I have optimized it a little bit, but it's still more complex than the current DOM (jpair/xpt/xpt_pool). However, I feel it is *much* more cohesive and maps closer to the actual format of the data. This is key to developing a good client library that is flexible and useful. :) I also feel quite strongly that the tradeoffs in additional memory consumption is well worth the ability to search and process large packets (should they ever occur). Let me know what you think. :) d. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 15:38:53 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15513 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:38:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15510 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:38:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:38:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Contact Methods In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > btw, brilliant design work done on this project. if everything is done > well, we may be able to kiss all of the proprietary internet messaging > protocols bye-bye. The selfish(and cool) part of Jabber is that they can all live locked in their little worlds, and we can live in all of them :) Even if Jabber would never meet mass-appeal, as long as it works for us that's all that matters, *g*. > > There is no "multiple ways" to contact a Jabber user, there is only Jabber > > :) > > > > well then, perhaps the idea of a tree view would be in order listing the > alternate transports available for that user: > > +---------------------------------------+ > | Contact List | > | + Joe Doe (Joe Doe@jabberhost.com) | > | - John Doe (John Doe@jabberhost.com) | > | |- ICQ (Offline) | > | |- Unix Talk (Offline) | > | `- Pager (Online) | > | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | > +---------------------------------------+ Cool, we are VERY close here, let me explain a bit more :) The tree structure is exactly right, and is what most clients will probably want to do. BUT, the only things in the branch under the user would be that users sessions. Now that I'm throwing sessions into the mud puddle here, I'll try to define: a session is a Jabber user connected to a Jabber server using a Jabber client, obviously Jabber is the key here, ;-) (note: you can be logged into a Jabber server with your account as many times simultaneously as you want, each one is a session) Now, let's say that John Doe is a Jabber user, and talks to his old friends via ICQ. John is not running an ICQ client, so there is no "path" to him via ICQ unless you are an ICQ user. Your(assuming that you are a Jabber user as well) only path to him is via Jabber to his Jabber client. So if you were looking at his entry on your roster you'd never see an entry for his ICQ transport, or for any of his transports, you'd only see his sessions. If he was using a windows Jabber client, logged into a Jabber enabled unix host, and had a Jabber<->Pager gateway set up, the roster might look like: +---------------------------------------+ | Contact List | | + Joe Doe (Joe Doe@jabberhost.com) | | - John Doe (John Doe@jabberhost.com) | | |- WinJab (busy) | | |- Unix Server (idle) | | `- Pager | | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | +---------------------------------------+ So, the tree under a user in a roster is based on their sessions. Any "transports" that user is making use of is that users business, nothing we will care about. Does this make sense? I know it can all be very confusing, but once we get it working it will be easier to understand :) Feel free to discuss further and keep asking questions, its a good way to get some of this stuff documented and help everyone understand. Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 15:55:06 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15654 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:55:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15651 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:55:04 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA09754 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA09697 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA07158 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id PAA07151 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:40:04 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be9341$3f4fbc20$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Chase Phillips > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods > > > > jenny > number=1/>545212@ICQ > > user@jabber.server.com > > olduser > > > > This MIGHT be a better way, as dumber clients would now > only have one > > entry, without the alternate contact methods.. > there has to be some way to do this and still keep the client work to a > minimum.. But there is a toss up here. That transfers the work to the transport. While this isn't all that bad, how does it tell if you want to send it to the alternate PAGER number instead of saying, 'store it offline'. To be honest, I like the above the best myself.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 15:55:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15669 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:55:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (nuts.coginst.uwf.edu [143.88.7.10]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15666 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:55:39 -0500 Received: from hawthorne (atl-qbu-zpl-vty146.as.wcom.net [216.192.213.146]) by nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA16948 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:01:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000901be93a7$ae6504b0$1e04a8c0@na.com> From: "Dave Smith" To: Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber DOM Proposal Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 02:53:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > The API I have defined below should be sufficient for most parsing tasks. Uh...I switched the last two paragraphs from the beginning of the email to the end just before I sent it out. All the API stuff is nearer the top. I just forgot to fix my sentences... :) d. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 16:10:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15821 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:10:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15818 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:10:30 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA10652 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA10621 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA11617 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id QAA11612 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:09:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] After a much beaten Jabber transport, I have this to report, sir.. Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:57:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000701be9343$ae5a54c0$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org Well, I actually spent the last hour trying to beak jabber.transport, and of all of the beatings it took, this one is the only one that really made it break. Lemme go thru what I did t try to break it.. (Rather simple ones, but I was bored, and wanted to smash some perl..) --- Connect to 5222 Drop Connect Repeat untill Tom's bored of this test (Cntrl-C) (10,000+ times) --- Report: Worked well.. the transport had a hard time keeping up with getting rid of the dropped connection, but this WAS on a P133 with only 32 megs ram.. ;-P --- Connect to 5222 Send an XML start and a , then rudely disconnect. Repeate untill Tom's Bored.. --- Report: Eck: Anywhere from 9-22 connections, jabber.transport promptly craps out with lib "new_data_from=10.94.32.99" read "Broken pipe" main "Exiting Jabber Transport" lib "EXITING, sockets closed" Needless to say, this way LONG before Tom was bored.. ;-P Ok, so it's not a crap out, it's more a casual pee on the leg.. ;-P Now, I can see where in io.c it calls it quits, but why does it handle a prompt disconnect well, but a disconnect after saying hello not to well.. The most interesting part is if I have it pause for a fraction of a second between disconnects, it stays up fine.. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 16:27:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15948 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:27:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15943 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:27:29 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA29597 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA29536 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA15431 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id QAA15423 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:26:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:14:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000801be9346$0d0e7e40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > From: owner-jdev@jabber.org On Behalf Of Jeremie > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Contact Methods > If he was using a windows Jabber client, logged into a Jabber enabled unix > host, and had a Jabber<->Pager gateway set up, the roster might look like: Is this supposed to be a hint to checkin the Windows client exe to cvs? ;-P > +---------------------------------------+ > | Contact List | > | + Joe Doe (Joe Doe@jabberhost.com) | > | - John Doe (John Doe@jabberhost.com) | > | |- WinJab (busy) | > | |- Unix Server (idle) | > | `- Pager | > | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | > +---------------------------------------+ > So, the tree under a user in a roster is based on their sessions. Any > "transports" that user is making use of is that users business, nothing we > will care about. It does, but I think we're talking about taking your idea one step further. Aka, Using Jabber to maintain contact with anyone in any way that transports will allow. Aka: +---------------------------------------+ | Contact List | | + Joe Doe (Joe Doe@jabberhost.com) | | - John Doe (John Doe@jabberhost.com) | | |- WinJab (busy) | | |- Unix Server (idle) | | `- Pager | | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | | - Joe Blow (IWuvJer@aol.com) | | `- 167289@pagers.jabberhost.com | | - Ant C. Eater (234567@pagers.jabber>| +---------------------------------------+ In this diagram, I have the 'Primary address' next to their names,and alternate addy's under.. Notice Joe Blow. I know I can contact him via AOL,or his pager. In this case, I DO care HOW ELSE I can reach him. I may not care about what transports Joe Doe uses, but if he tells me he can also be XSexyHoeX@icq.wuvviedovie.com, I want to be able to add that as an 'alternate' address, and not have it as another primary address. This appears to be what your saying, but the initial question (At least it's what I want to know) is how will the status messages to SHOW this roster look? My idea was like this: jenny545212@ICQ user@jabber.server.com olduser or this: jenny 545212@ICQjenny user@jabber.server.com olduser This would use the ext fields to add the alternate adresses, and 'relate' them to each other. One way would make it so dumb clients would only see the primary, and the other, dumb clients would see 'em all.. Actually, while we're on the topic, is there a way in the status messages to give 'em a person use name. Aka, perhaps I want my brother in law, XNateReadX@aol.com simply as 'Nate' in my contact list. How is that done via the current status system? Kind of like above, how is 'Joe Doe' passed as a name?(As you can tell, the status box in the current Win32 client bites.. Working on it this weekend..) > > Does this make sense? I know it can all be very confusing, but once we > get it working it will be easier to understand :) > > Feel free to discuss further and keep asking questions, its a good way to > get some of this stuff documented and help everyone understand. > > Jer > From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 16:30:40 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15991 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:30:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15988 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:30:33 -0500 Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA21426 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA21338 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA15972 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tarot.telecom.ups.com ([10.94.32.98]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id QAA15961 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Thomas Charron" To: "Jabber Development" Subject: [JDEV] 0.6 release.. Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:17:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000901be9346$7b1f5f80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org I DO have a small suggestion as far as the 0.6 release.. Let's not throw it up on slashdot all that quick.. ;-P I'll have a Windows client read by Monday to be in the package, but I think we should seewhat's obviouse first. If it shows up on slashdot to much, aka, every release, people will look at it what we hit 1.0 at say.. 'Oh, I looked at that thing a while ago,it didn;t support x or y or z. Peice of junk..'.. See my point? From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 16:34:53 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16035 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:34:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from localhost (jeremie@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16030 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:34:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:34:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremie X-Sender: jeremie@mondo.eppg.com To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber DOM Proposal In-Reply-To: <002d01be93a3$785f5ae0$1e04a8c0@na.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org > I have been doing some serious analysis of the current DOM > (jpair/xpt/xpt_pool) combo, and the W3C recommendation of the DOM. I've also > been looking at etherx and the jabber transport, trying to understand how > they use all of the nifty data structures. Wonderbuns! > Regarding the current DOM, it's unbelievably close to the actual W3C > [smush] > Things to keep in mind (will eventually be a proper introduction) > 1.) The Jabber protocol is based on a XML *subset*. As such, the W3C DOM > really doesn't apply since we don't support all of XML anyway Correct. Jabber is 100% XML but doesn't utilize all the fringe parts of the XML spec, as they are not needed for a protocol format and are more geared for a document type of context. > 2.) The Jabber DOM is more interested in organizing the contents of the XML > packet than in keeping the contents of packets in sequence. Parent-child > relationships are preserved, but the order of multiple child tags (with the > same name)within a parent is *not*. Yup. > DOM Public API types & functions > -------------------------------------------------------------- > The Jabber DOM shall provide the following opaque data types: > 1.) Tag: represents a XML tag; may have sub-tags, attributes, and one (1) > datum > 2.) Attribute : represents the XML attribute(of the form =) > associated with a tag > 3.) Datum: represents character data stored between tags > > To traverse the DOM, the following operations are provided: > 1.) hasTag(Tag t, String name) : Integer > Desc: Determines if has any subtags which match ; returns > number of matching tags > 2.) hasAttribute(Tag t, String name) : Boolean > Desc: Determines if has any attributes with name of > 3.) hasDatum(Tag t) : Boolean > Desc: Determines if has any character data These aren't really critical, but they fill out the dessert tray nicely :) > 4.) getTag(Tag t, String name) : Tag > Desc: Attempt to retrieve first subtag in which matches ; > returns NULL if none are found > 5.) getNextTagSibling(Tag t) : Tag > Desc: Returns any following tags (of same name, at this level in DOM > tree); returns NULL if none exist > 6.) getPrevTagSibling(Tag t) : Tag > Desc: Returns any previous tags (of same name, at this level in DOM > tree); returns NULL if none exist getTag() will be very handy! > 7.) getTagName(Tag t) : String > Desc: Returns name of a tag > 8.) getTagDatum(Tag t) : Pointer > Desc: Returns pointer to tag 's datum; *not* null terminated > 9.) getTagDatumSz(Tag t) : Integer > Desc: Returns length of tag 's datum segment I'm curious about this, why wouldn't you just null terminate the string and avoid the getTagDatumSz method? Also, no biggie, but in XML worlds the strings are usually called cdata... would it be more consistent/understandable to refer to them the same way? > 10.) getAttribute(Tag t, String name) : String > Desc: Returns value of tag 's attribute by name of > 11.) putAttribute(Tag t, String name, String value) : void > Desc: Adds/replaces attribute with on tag > 12.) addTag(Tag parent, Tag child): void > Desc: Adds as subtag to ; does *not* replace existing > tags > 13.) addDatum(Tag t, Pointer datum, Integer datum_sz) : void > Desc: Appends to end of 's existing datum; increments 's > datum size accordingly > 14.) deleteTag(Tag t) : void > Desc: Releases , including all attributes, children and datum; use > with care > 15.) deleteAttribute(Tag t, String name) > Desc: Releases attribute associated with Yummy! > DOM Internal representations > -------------------------------------------------------------- > The Jabber DOM shall use the following internal data structures for the > representation of parsed XML: > 1.) Node = the equivalent of a XML tag; contains: > 1.2) Value : String Are we missing?: 1.1) Name : String *g* > 1.3) Attribs : AttribTree > 1.4) Children : NodeTree > 1.5) NextSibling : Node > 1.6) PrevSibling : Node > > 2.) Attrib = the equivalent of a XML tag attribute; contains: > 2.1) Name : String > 2.2) Value : String > > 3.) AttribTree = a balanced binary tree (AVL, probably) contains Attribs > keyed by Attrib.Name I highly doubt we need this... we only have a couple of attributes at most on any tag, doing this extra work here would be a shame :) > > 4.) NodeList = a unordered linked list of Nodes which all have the same > name; contains: > 4.1) Name : String > 4.2) Nodes : Linked List > > 4.) NodeTree = a balanced binary tree (AVL, again) containing NodeLists; > keyed by the NodeList.Name Again, the only place where we might have a ton of tags that might need this would be in the roster packets which will account for a very very low percentrage of the overall packet count. I'm no AVL expert, will it help much/any for simple packets like message or status? > [smush] > current DOM (jpair/xpt/xpt_pool). However, I feel it is *much* more cohesive > and maps closer to the actual format of the data. This is key to developing > a good client library that is flexible and useful. :) I also feel quite > strongly that the tradeoffs in additional memory consumption is well worth > the ability to search and process large packets (should they ever occur). I do like it(quite a bit in fact), and it would make a client development(and internal stuff) much easier to understand :) > Let me know what you think. :) So when are you going to be checking it in? Hehe :) Jer From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 17:39:12 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16373 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:39:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (nuts.coginst.uwf.edu [143.88.7.10]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA16370 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:39:10 -0500 Received: from hawthorne (atl-qbu-zpl-vty146.as.wcom.net [216.192.213.146]) by nuts.coginst.uwf.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA01219 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:44:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002d01be93b6$247215e0$1e04a8c0@na.com> From: "Dave Smith" To: Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber DOM Proposal Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 04:36:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org >I'm curious about this, why wouldn't you just null terminate the string >and avoid the getTagDatumSz method? Also, no biggie, but in XML worlds This will change... :) Still working it out in my head...The way the interface is setup right now, it's not gonna correctly parse certain things like: data1databolddata2 would wind up being.. Tag(tag, Children(b), Datum(data1data2)) which obviously isn't right... :) >the strings are usually called cdata... would it be more >consistent/understandable to refer to them the same way? Okay, that would be good. >Are we missing?: > 1.1) Name : String >*g* Actually, no. The Name is stored in the NodeList. :) It's more efficient this way. Remember, a Node is *never* (I'm pretty sure :)) stored without a NodeList. >> 3.) AttribTree = a balanced binary tree (AVL, probably) contains Attribs >> keyed by Attrib.Name > >I highly doubt we need this... we only have a couple of attributes at most >on any tag, doing this extra work here would be a shame :) > Well, we get a lot of benefits from using AVL trees for this stuff. That getTag() method you liked so much, is dependent on the DOM having the data already organized by name. Memory wise, an AVL tree is the same size as a linked list, and insertion time is minimally slower than a standard linked list insertion on a small list. I'm still trying to decide if that's the way to go, though. :) Probably what I'll do initially is implement a linked list and set it up so I can easily plug-in a more efficient data structure later -- after we've determined it's really needed. :) >I do like it(quite a bit in fact), and it would make a client >development(and internal stuff) much easier to understand :) Thanks. That's my goal. :) >So when are you going to be checking it in? Hehe :) Soon. :) D. From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 18:06:34 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16509 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:06:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from squishy.ameth.org (shepard@squishy.ameth.org [206.152.121.49]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16506 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:06:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (shepard@localhost) by squishy.ameth.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21561 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:17:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:17:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Chase Phillips To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: RE: [JDEV] Contact Methods In-Reply-To: <000801be9346$0d0e7e40$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > > So, the tree under a user in a roster is based on their sessions. Any > > "transports" that user is making use of is that users business, nothing we > > will care about. > *and* > +---------------------------------------+ > | Contact List | > | + Jane Doe (Jane Doe@jabberhost.com) | > | - Joe Blow (IWuvJer@aol.com) | > | `- 167289@pagers.jabberhost.com | > | - Ant C. Eater (234567@pagers.jabber>| > +---------------------------------------+ we're REALLY close now. the one problem i have with this diagram is the pager email address. for all intents and purposes, a SMTP transort could be used for the 167289@pagers.jabberhost.com (maybe masked as a Pager entry?), but still vital info regarding a person's pager is given away (straight email to that pager, etc). if however, the number you are using here is itself an address for the transport to understand itself, nice. the gig is that if i have a pager, i don't want sally in san fran to know my pager number of ID. i just want certain ppl to have access to it through jabber (authorize on add?) and others who i know won't abuse it to have the actual phone number. > > In this diagram, I have the 'Primary address' next to their names,and > alternate addy's under.. Notice Joe Blow. I know I can contact him via > AOL,or his pager. In this case, I DO care HOW ELSE I can reach him. I may > not care about what transports Joe Doe uses, but if he tells me he can also > be XSexyHoeX@icq.wuvviedovie.com, I want to be able to add that as an > 'alternate' address, and not have it as another primary address. This > appears to be what your saying, but the initial question (At least it's what > I want to know) is how will the status messages to SHOW this roster look? this is interesting.. i originally thought it would be more elegant to have a Name directly linked to a jabber ID (or not linked to one at all if that person didn't have a jabber account). but now, after thinking about a person only having one contact transport the idea of a Primary address and then multiple Secondary addresses becomes clearer. if Joe Doe doesn't have a jabber address, but only a ICQ number we add him with primary address being his ICQ number@ICQ. when he does finally get a jabber address (cos he's heard so much about jabber ;) then the server automagically switches the primary address for this user (or does this happen as one of the user's prefs?). > [snip] > > or this: > > > jenny > 545212@ICQ number=1/>jenny > user@jabber.server.com > olduser > > this looks good, but the "number" section does what exactly? if it specifies the priority of which method of contact to use first, and the client enforces it, perhaps there's a better way. otherwise, if it is something the user sets when maneuvering people around his/her roster, nice. this would keep the order based on What You Want It To Be. > > Actually, while we're on the topic, is there a way in the status messages > to give 'em a person use name. Aka, perhaps I want my brother in law, > XNateReadX@aol.com simply as 'Nate' in my contact list. How is that done > via the current status system? Kind of like above, how is 'Joe Doe' passed > as a name?(As you can tell, the status box in the current Win32 client > bites.. Working on it this weekend..) > could there be an emergence of a tag with extensions being Pager="" ICQ="" etc etc: Main \ Joe Doe or is this inefficient/not needed/too late in the game? i'm sure the current spec will function wonderfully if so. regards, Chase Phillips -- shepard at ameth.org ][ Only you will know http://www.ameth.org/ ][ if I proofread this From owner-jdev@jabber.org Fri Apr 30 19:39:48 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16975 for jdev-list; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:39:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mondo.eppg.com: majordomo set sender to owner-jdev@jabber.org using -f Received: from smtp.doruk.net.tr (smtp.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.4]) by mondo.eppg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16971 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:39:43 -0500 Received: from doruk.net.tr (zeus.doruk.net.tr [212.58.4.10]) by smtp.doruk.net.tr (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id DAA16014 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 03:02:57 +0200 (TSI) Received: from [212.31.4.94] by doruk.net.tr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA15261; Sat, 1 May 1999 02:32:39 +0300 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 02:38:18 +0300 (EEST) From: "Kemal 'disq' Hadimli" X-Sender: disq@heart_of_gold.localdomain To: Jabber Development Subject: Re: [JDEV] 0.6 release.. In-Reply-To: <000901be9346$7b1f5f80$62205e0a@tarot.telecom.ups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-jdev@jabber.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jdev@jabber.org On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Thomas Charron wrote: > If it shows up on slashdot to much, aka, every release, people will look at > it what we hit 1.0 at say.. 'Oh, I looked at that thing a while ago,it > didn;t support x or y or z. Peice of junk..'.. > > See my point? you're right. ;) but it's a paradox. without people, the code is hard to debug, few patches received, and too little new ideas/comments. with people, when they don't like a release, some of them just throw the whole project out the window, and they tell this all people around them. bye, disqk MICROS~1 is not the answer. MICROS~1 is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer.